[justify]It does make it feel similar, but the radio switching itself is still such a pain to do. Also having multiple handheld radios fills up the vest capacity much more than the one small radio solution of TFAR.
As far as I’m concerned overall TFAR still offers better user friendliness overall.[/justify]
You’re correct. It does but it will never change. If we base our willingness to do the switch on user friendliness as the #1 top issue, we can stop testing and forget about ACRE2.
I made a short video demonstrating how to make PTT work in ACRE2 like it does in TFAR so you guys don’t have to read the BI forums:
[youtube]967-KETRFoQ[/youtube]
Thats true but makes things impractical in Arma3 (multiple radios). I’m starting to think they are too focused on delivering real-life equivalent of radio comms and not gameplay-relevant solutions. Overcomplicating things which should be simple, easy to use but have flexibility. I’d go with 1 radio that gives me all options to communicate with quality than 100 radios that are emulating real ones. I want to play a game with friends with immersion, not play Radio-The Game. But that’s just my opinion.
Once you set up your radios, there is no reason why you need to switch between the radios. You just use them as I’ve described in my last post. Or even better like Bull described.
[quote name=“TFAR”]7800 with DAGR weighs 0.45kg
152 weighs 0.37kg
1523G ASIP weighs 3.62kg[/quote]
[quote name=“ACRE2”]343 weighs 0.37kg
148 weighs 0.37kg
152 weighs 0.37kg
117 weighs 5.44kg
77 weighs 5.44kg[/quote]
148 and 152 ACRE2 radios have closer operating range to 1523G ASIP radio than 152 TFAR radios. Meaning, Fireteam leaders would have to carry two 343s (0.74kg) and squad leaders would have to carry 148 and 343 (0.74kg). One player gets to carry 0.29kg more, while the other player gets to carry 2.88kg less. One STANAG mag weighs 0.36kg.
I agree ACRE2 is still not ready, but I don’t agree with other arguments.
As far as I know, 343 transmission range is 400-900 meters (It’s a walkie-talkie for fireteam members). It should be enough for all standard situations, until a SL is killed and an FTL has to take over - in which case he will have to take the radio off the SL’s corpse.
I summed up a list of the main reason why we’re not using ACRE2 yet, and how to fix/bypass all of them.
1)Volume phasing:
This is a bug that might never be solved due to how ARMA itself classifies walls/ceilings/floors. ACRE2 is estimating occlusion based on what the Engine is providing, which is inaccurate. They’re still trying to improve/solve this but it might not happen until BI do something.
Solution:
The feature can be disabled and ACRE2 becomes more like TFAR. Add this line to the mission:
ACRE_TEST_OCCLUSION = false
2) Using the PTT is not as comfortable/simple as it is with TFAR?
Solution:
This works up to 3 radios, which should be enough for 99% of our play sessions.
3) Radio transmission is lost over some terrain:
This is a realistic feature that we might not like.
Solution:
The feature can be disabled/reduced and ACRE2 becomes more like TFAR, ignoring terrain/obstacles and only considering range, using the API
4) Radio transmission is lost or missed due to poor communications (stepping on each other while using half-duplex radios):
This is also a realistic feature that we might not like.
Solution:
Once again, this can be disabled via API, turning the radios into full-duplex, as they are in TFAR
5) Direct speech range and dropoff is not to our liking? There’s 2 ways to modify this.
Solution 1:
Using the API to apply Voice Curve Manipulation
Solution 2:
Next ACRE2 release will have the ability to modify the multiplier of each of the 9 steps on the speech volume slider. Current values are available here.
p.s. there was still the problem with some clients clipping/distorting (specifically Shiny) but it is possibly fixed. Most of our tests were done with 2-4 players, we’ll need a slightly bigger test pool to reassure.
You have nicely summarised the issues with ACRE2. Although I would say for points 3 and 4 to be features that we should definitely use. Those are one of the reasons why I’m so eager to use ACRE2 over TFAR.
I agree. I mentioned these just to point out that it is indeed open for modification if desired.
Ow yeah! Love to see that the ACRE2 API is so mod-able! Personally I agree with Ryujin, as I think this will introduce interesting situations!
I’d like to see if that clipping/distortion problem can be fixed! If you need any help with testing Im very interested in helping out here!
Test build .778 is up for testing. I’m too busy this week with real life so feel free to test it if you have time.
Using the API and commands shoukd be simple enough, just add the lines to the init.sqf
Did a long test with Insane just now.
Results:
I would like to perform a big test this weekend with at least 10 players. The main goal of the test will be to see if we can reproduce distortion/clipping - and if so - can we solve this by adjusting volume settings or not. Everyone is free to join, I will announce the date and time soon.
Welp, and off to bed and back up for work in 5 hours. Damn you, ACRE2.
-EDIT: Enabling full-duplex IS possible. According to jaynus, it has to be loaded during mission start and in a specific order… He provided the needed code AND it can be done via the ARMA3 editor too
Thanks everyone for showing up.
Conclusions:
ACRE1 is superior to ACRE2 and TFAR in the most important regards: direct speech and radio speech.
I gave up on ACRE2 in it’s current state.
BUT
ACRE1 can’t be applied without bringing a major change to how we communicate for one reason: It’s a partial-half-duplex system. Two guys can talk on the radio at the same time, but during radio transmission, you cannot hear any other radio transmission - so you can be stepping on each other and won’t even realize - and the worst part - nobody can ‘BREAK BREAK BREAK’ and notify you in the middle, because you won’t hear it anyway…
This in itself isn’t a problem but the amount of change to be efficient at communicating might overwhelm some of us.
I’m FOR ACRE1 however I realize it’s never going to happen, just throwing it out there.
I’m AGAINST ACRE2 in its current state, speech volume issues are MAJOR.
I’m AGAINST TFAR because it has terrible direct speech, leading to poor procedures and cluttered communcations.
RIP ACRE2, we’ll meet again in 6 to 12 months .
Thank you all for taking the time to test. In this case I would argue that no change is better than a change that doesn’t gain us anything.
That’s not what I’m saying… ACRE1 is a much better system than TFAR and it’s a much less buggy system than ACRE2 but adaptation will be too difficult, resulting in my inability to convince NCOs.
-EDIT: Forgive me if I sound aggressive, I just spent months testing and discussing and today ~8 hours setting things up and finally doing a real-usage test.
Don’t worry, Bull. The effort you put into this grants you a little leeway, and you still have the full leeway to work with as far as I’m concerned.
I acknowledge that you consider ACRE1 much better, but as you say, you think the adaptation is not worth the gain. As a result, it would be unwise to change systems. Considering TFAR is already in use, it might be shit but at least it’s shit we’re (getting) comfortable with.
I’m glad you reply because it shows perhaps I’m not clear enough in my posts.
Yes, ACRE1 doesn’t have quick binds to switch channels
Yes, ACRE1 has more difficult partially-realistic half-duplex radio system
Yes, ACRE1 requires using TS3.0.13 or older
Yes, ACRE1 requires a few extra minutes of setting up
Here comes the big BUT:
How often do you have to change channels during playing? Once or twice during an operation, at most
How often do we actually step on each other? It happens… It will have to happen less, eventually
How much do people really care if it’s TS3.0.13 or TS3.0.16?
How much impact do these extra minutes have on the final result - which is daily hours of awesome communication improvements.
All of our minds were literally blown by how much better ACRE1 is than ACRE2 and TFAR. I’ll try to post a short video of this today. 
What I’m saying is that all of the ACRE1 issues are meta/minor in comparison to the gains you achieve from such a switch, both in regards to just hearing people better in both direct and radio, as well as having to learn to be more efficient on the radio - and thus more efficient in communicating in general.
I’m waiting for a reply from Dslyecxi currently, trying to understand how his community uses ACRE1 with all the limitations. You can see some interesting insider chatter with Dslyecxi, ACRE devs and me here:
In conclusion I think the adaptation is worth the gain but convincing Clarke and Abuk will be near impossible, and Ryujin is on the fence, leaning towards TFAR. It doesn’t really matter what I think at this stage.
[justify]Oi, that’s a bit harsh. What you think matters a lot.
I agree that ACRE1 has high quality direct speech (Ryujin and I tested it as well back in the days) but the stepping on each other problem is an issue I find very problematic. A group as well oiled and ShackTac can afford to risk the stepping issue as most of their element leaders are superb at radio comms with a lot less overall trafic than us. We are pretty damn good at it by now as well, but when things go down our communications still break down often, and that’s when we can actually hear multiple radio incomings. Using ACRE1 would lead to a lot of debrief and event arguments àla "but I told you to move to WP1 and you didn’t" and the other guy going "no you didn’t, never received an order".
My position remains the same as before: I like ACRE2, I prefer it’s directional speech and distortion patterns. And I will vote for a switch the ACRE2 once it’s ready / all the bugs are ironed out. But until then TFAR is still the best comm mod for A3 out there (minus the worst directional speech). Thank you for putting all the time and effort into testing these systems as much as you did, believe me I know how frustrating it can be to invest that much time into testing certain mods only to realise that it might not be implemented after all. But never say never.[/justify]
I think both sides have valid points! For whats it’s worth here is my two cents worth.
I think ACRE1 could work and in many cases is far better than TFAR. Clarke, you are talking about the issues we would run into with people stepping on each other if we are all using one channel. As an FTL I could argue that I already have this issue. When SL is giving me orders no-one else in my FT is aware of it except for the AAR who has the additional setup. This results in FT members still talking to me on the radio or via direct chat anyway. I could tell them all to shut up but by the time I do that SL is usually finished and I end up asking them to repeat orders anyway.
If everyone was on the same channel it could make our comms even more effective as this wouldn’t happen and it would force us to tighten up our comms to keep the channel clear and ALWAYS repeat orders to ensure you heard them correctly.
I have tried to think about how this could work and here is an example of it.
Game Master, Pilots, Platoon Lead and Squad Leads each have a 152 radio with a range of 25km. This is set to channel 1.
Everyone in Alpha Squad (ASL,A1 & A2) including FT members have a 343 radio with a range of 1.5km that is set to channel 2.
The only people that should actually use the 343 are the ASL and FTLs in A1 & A2 (with AARs speaking if FTL is down or buddy teams split up for whatever reason). Everyone else can listen in so their situational awareness improves and no-one will ever step on each other because they will know when the FTL is receiving orders.
All FT members would communicate only via direct chat which can work due to the quality of ACRE1.
This means the only people who may get stepped on are SLs who will have 2 radios assuming that they can hear both at once? If they can’t then we would all need to be on the same channel which just we means we need to be even better with the quality of our comms. I think we are capable of this and it would only force us to improve further.
The only issue we have is the installation process. If we can deal with mods and plugins through the repo then they won’t be a problem. The major issue is installing the older version of TS and editing the config file to setup your controls.
That install is the major hurdle. If we can get over that then it just comes down to the kind of gameplay we want/are capable of. If we want to continue with additional channels then we stick to TFAR, or we have everyone on a single channel and rely on direct speaking a lot more in ACRE.
Personally I would like to try ACRE if we can make the install process straightforward.
I have written more than I intended and I hope it makes sense. 
lol
To strengthen that point, yes, that’s exactly how big communities are using ACRE
It took us ~45 minutes to install and set up everything including TS3, the mod and the volume changer and troubleshoot everyone’s issues (I think there was 6 or 7 of us). We had many issues because we forgot where to put the userconfig files and we also accidentally downloaded ARMA2 volume changer (my bad). Now that we’ve learned this, JayArmaLib and volume changer can be added to ACRE or CNTO_v3 mod folder. The only thing that is really a little annoying is having to install an old TS3.
