Weapons up/down, combat pace, the endless horror

Arma Lounge
1

Apparently not many people are aware of the various combinations of infantry movement properties, so let me summarize things a bit. The following assumes two of the 3 basic stances - crouching and standing. Being prone is irrelevant (there’s only one movement speed + sprint) and any of the sub-stances aren’t used during movement, only when stationary.

There are 3 independent properties:

  1. weapons up/down - meaning jogging with weapons being held up (below jaw) or near the waist (down)
  2. combat pace - moving while aiming down iron sights
  3. stance - standing/crouching

These together form 8 possible combinations - yes, you can be in combat pace with weapons down.

Some facts about speeds in these combinations:
[table]
[tr]
[th]Weap[/th]
[th]Pace[/th]
[th]Stance[/th]
[th]Speed[/th]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]up[/td]
[td]normal[/td]
[td]standing[/td]
[td]14 km/h[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]down[/td]
[td]normal[/td]
[td]standing[/td]
[td]13.5 km/h[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]up[/td]
[td]combat[/td]
[td]standing[/td]
[td]11 km/h[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]down[/td]
[td]combat[/td]
[td]standing[/td]
[td]11.2 km/h[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]up[/td]
[td]normal[/td]
[td]crouching[/td]
[td]10.8 km/h[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]down[/td]
[td]normal[/td]
[td]crouching[/td]
[td]11.5 km/h[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]up[/td]
[td]combat[/td]
[td]crouching[/td]
[td]8 km/h[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]down[/td]
[td]combat[/td]
[td]crouching[/td]
[td]9 km/h[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
The speeds were taken from the Virtual Arsenal, fractions were estimated by the visual bars, but they’re not so important as the relative conclusions we can take:

  • when standing, you move a tiny bit slower with weapons down compared to weapons up
  • when crouching, you move significantly faster with weapons down compared to weapons up
  • watch your combat pace state, leading an element with weapon down while in combat pace will make others stop every so often and will make the element slower by more than 2 km/h

Sprint is affected only by stance - 17 km/h in crouch, >18 km/h when standing. Note however that there’s a mid-state when having weapons down and combat pace on - you won’t start sprinting immediately, only after going through a 14 km/h state (crouch) or 9 km/h state (stand). Yes - you slow down for a second when holding the sprint button and heaving weapons down + combat pace + standing stance.

You might draw the conclusion that weapons down while standing up is a useless state as you move slightly slower, but that’s until we move to fatigue consumption:
[table]
[tr]
[th]Weap[/th]
[th]Pace[/th]
[th]Stance[/th]
[th]Fatigue[/th]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]up[/td]
[td]normal[/td]
[td]standing[/td]
[td]48%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]down[/td]
[td]normal[/td]
[td]standing[/td]
[td]31%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]up[/td]
[td]normal[/td]
[td]crouching[/td]
[td]57%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]down[/td]
[td]normal[/td]
[td]crouching[/td]
[td]38%[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
(on 160m standing / 112m crouching of perfectly flat ground, with weight bar being at cca. 60%, ie. regular loadout)

Some conclusions from that:

  • when traveling across reasonably safe terrain, jog with weapons down to conserve stamina
  • when moving low (crouching) in defilade/concealment with no immediate intent to engage, move with weapons down - you’re a lot faster and can travel significantly further
  • sprint only where appropriate as it drains stamina a LOT faster than simply moving with weapons down
  • stamina is directly related to turning and aiming, so conserving it even during a firefight is very important

Jogging with weapons down should not be confused with the ACE3 "safe jogging" (main weapon on the back) - raising the weapon is a relatively fast action (and can be performed by a left mouse click) while taking it from the back isn’t.

[rule]
Some "features" / glitches you should know about:

  • Firing a weapon puts you into combat pace for 3 seconds, this can be disabled by unbinding the primary mouse button under Controls -> Infantry Movement. This is useful if you want to sprint / move right after firing a weapon (see also the sprint-from-combat-pace bug above).
  • Combat pace is automatically activated for ~2 seconds when raising weapon - this AFAIK cannot be disabled.
  • Combat pace is also activated by using the iron sights (right mouse) - this makes sense when the weapon is up, but is dangerously misleading when it’s down - the character moves in the "weapons down, combat pace" mode, but the combat pace button doesn’t cancel it, you need to press right mouse to turn off the "iron sights mode". Note that this is only relevant if you have iron sights on "toggle" (default).

How to spot when your character is in combat pace with weapons down (this is much easier from 3rd person, so please let others know):

  • standing - the character jogs with weapon around waist, holding it with only right arm, left arm moves around // with combat pace disabled, the character holds the weapon at waist level with both hands while jogging
  • crouching - the character moves exactly like "weapon up, combat pace off", but holds the weapon with stock(butt) below the neck whereas the normal "weapon up, combat pace off" positions the stock more to the right, in front of the shoulder – the giveaway is when the character stops - if it was moving normally, but stops into "weapon down" position, the combat pace is enabled
2

PS: (as if it wasn’t complicated enough) – When moving at slowly (W+S toggle by default), it appears as if you had combat pace, but the actual combat pace toggle works independently (as with right mouse button // iron sights), so we have 3 different independent mechanisms of toggling combat pace.
In addition, you can move slowly with weapon down, which again looks like moving in "weapon down, combat pace on" - just slower. The dangerous thing is that you may accidentally enable the normal combat pace toggle without any visible effect.

3

WOW! Very informative, Freghar. Thanks for the detailed research!

4

Puts on glasses and brings out pen and notebook Alright, let’s get started, Prof. Freghar.

5

Very interesting. I understand now, when the confusion gets the highest:
When ‘combat pace’ is not clearly announced or overheard and FTL, who toggled into combat pace by button, goes into iron sight , but switches sometimes out of iron sight.
If you toggled into combat pace as told, you will evolve at those ±11km/h, aiming down iron sight or not, same as your FTL. But if you didn’t , you will be on par as long as you keep aiming down the iron sight (yes, you might be deaf but you have a sharp eye for mimicking your FTL’s stance) , but as soon as you go out of iron sight aim, you switch to standing, normal, weapons up, which is 14km/h and there your trouble starts.
Did I get that example right or not ? I just happen to be at work, so I can’t try it out right now.

6

I don’t get it why normal pace with weapons down is slower than with weapons up. In every other case its the other way around and it makes sense, since you don’t put more effort into handling the weapon.

To sum it up:

Combat pace is: shortly after firing, when pressing C, when aiming down sights
Weapons down is: 2x CTRL, so weapon is no longer in your screen.

I found it confusing that when you go weapons down and normal pace, you hold your weapon with both hands, while if you go combat pace and weapons down you hold weapon with 1 arm.

Arma gives alot of possibilities, but combat stance/weapons up/down mixes everything rly hard.

7

I think it’s just to fuck with you

8

Maybe we should distinguish 3 stances for movement instead of 2 then?

Travelling stance (jogging) - weapon down, normal pace - moving through reasonably safe terrain
Weapons up (jogging) - weapon up, normal pace - movement within AO, danger possible zones
Combat pace (marching) - weapons up, combat pace - high threat areas, CQB

And then:
Double time - sprinting across open spaces

On the other hand - difference between travelling and weapons up is only ~0.5 km/h, moving on uneven terrain can make bigger difference than speed.

9

Jogging with weapon down can be thought of as more "relaxed" whereas with weapon ready, it’s more about quicker "tactical" movement. Although yes, it’s kind of weird.

It’s actually one of the easier ways to spot if you’re in combat pace. What happens often to me is that I accidentally press right mouse (iron sights) while jogging with weapon down - something you don’t see the effect of immediately and when you do, you just instinctively press C, look up and continue movement, but pressing C does nothing (because the combat pace was toggled by the mouse/sights, not by C).

I’m fine with the complexity, just give me some onscreen "LEDs" to see what stance properties are enabled. :slight_smile:

[quote user_id=“1171274” avatar=“https://assets-cloud.enjin.com/users/1171274/avatar/medium.1413819128.jpeg” name=“Abuk”]Maybe we should distinguish 3 stances for movement instead of 2 then?

Travelling stance (jogging) - weapon down, normal pace - moving through reasonably safe terrain
Weapons up (jogging) - weapon up, normal pace - movement within AO, danger possible zones
Combat pace (marching) - weapons up, combat pace - high threat areas, CQB

And then:
Double time - sprinting across open spaces

On the other hand - difference between travelling and weapons up is only ~0.5 km/h, moving on uneven terrain can make bigger difference than speed.[/quote]
The biggest reason for using "weapons down" is stamina, "31% vs 48%" doesn’t look much, but round it around to "30% vs 50%" and suddenly you can get nearly twice as far with weapon down, not counting the significant speed bonuses while crouching.

While stamina isn’t currently a big issue, because our communications and movements are relatively slow, it’s something to consider in time-critical situations (capture of a VIP) once we learn how to move fast as a squad.

Another reason for "weapons down" is the lack of the safety switch (something AGM had, IIRC), to prevent misfire.

10

[quote user_id=“13633351” avatar=“https://assets-cloud.enjin.com/users/13633351/avatar/medium.1434890353.jpeg” name=“Freghar”]
Another reason for "weapons down" is the lack of the safety switch (something AGM had, IIRC), to prevent misfire.[/quote]

With ACE 3 you can Shift+~ (tilde) to flick that safety

Good post