ST Granade system - incoming to ACE

So, Dslyecxi just published an announcement/teaser video of upcoming ACE addition, which is yet another homemade ShackTac tool:


Looks awesome from practical point of view. Im not sure about how accessible are the controls, the only thing I don’t like is the visualization of nade in front of your face even if youre holding a weapon. What you guys think about this? Will this be new "ShackTac Hud" in terms of everyday usage or just interesting but not neccessary system?

I hate it. I’ve seen that on their video and it looks like a feature from Battlefield 7.

I like it. It’s not perfect, but better than all the other grenade throwing mods. Better in the sense of "I can just throw grenades" instead of "oh wait, I need to adjust angle, velocity, … cooking, … and press it when the jumping power slider is in the right position". It’s a bit complex from the start, but it has a system one can get used to and use without thinking. The "moving" grenades into a window isn’t great, but it’s a workaround for Arma, which I’ll take for those rare situations.
Also, throwing from pilot/copilot’s seat can be great for marking POIs with smoke for artillery or something. Or dropping hand flares from high up.

Though what does it for me is that I won’t need to carry two types of grenades in my custom loadout (RGN+RGO) just so I can lob something over the wall without it flying 300m after it.

That’s all very nice, but where is the skill in that? They are very close to creating a mod where you can basically just pick the grenade landing point and press the left button.

It’s not that simple, if it works like his previously developed mod (there are some videos of it), it loses accuracy after a few (~3-5) meters. I guess we’ll see how / if it works in practice, I very much doubt you can precisely predict where the grenade lands (the dots don’t go all the way) and even if you can, it can always bounce.

It’s all very subjective, I guess - some people hate weapon sway, because that’s not how a trained soldier would hold a weapon after a 50m jog, I could make the opposite argument about precisely throwing grenades up a window on the 2nd floor.

Regardless of the accuracy, the system feels much more "hands on", compared to hoping you’re looking down enough for the grenade to go up a window and not to the wall above it. I’m interested in the usability at least.

I’d say lets test this to the fullest :smiley:
Really hope this can make the system more user friendly while keeping the immersion (dots on the screen are still dots…)

I agree with Highway, this is a terrible addition. The only sort of game in which this would work is a 2D top down shooter or some kind of MOBA, but definitely not in Arma. This is just getting rid of one of the only things in arma 3 that actually required some sort of skill.

For reference, this is the previous video/version:


Do you still find that one terrible? Or is it just the dots? I guess it could be better to show only the first ~3 dots, so you know whether the grenade goes into a doorway that’s right next to you or not - that’s the primary benefit I had it mind.

I guess it won’t be that hard to modify it upstream in ACE3 to have some options for difficulty levels.

My biggest issue with the current grenade system compared to real life (where I could easily hit a window at 10m with a rock as a kid) is that I can’t weight the grenade - I have to remember what kind of arc, based on weight, each grenade has, which kind of sucks considering that throwing heavy objects is not a speciality role, it’s something monkeys can do and people in arma 3 have generally major problems with.

edit: FYI - Add Advanced Throwing by jonpas · Pull Request #3477 · acemod/ACE3 · GitHub is the pull request

You’ve got a point there Freghar, however with his mod they’re fixing a different problem, that of not having a visual representation of where the grenade goes, not the issue.of grenades having different flight paths due to A3 soldiers being to weak to accelerate a M67 grenade to considerable speed. I think it’d be best to alter A3’s code in such a way that every grenades flies over the same trajectory, so that mod makers cant fuck up their grenades and you don’t accidentally bomb a school because you threw tour RGN too far

Re-watching the new video again - it seems that the grenade doesn’t really follow the path of the dots, although it ultimately hits where the impact point is (see the last few seconds), which - I admit - is an issue. You shouldn’t be able to throw a grenade as precisely as he did there with just the visual feedback of the grenade system.

However my point was that I like the general functionality of the mod, I can reliably throw grenades behind a wall, behind a corner, into a doorway, into a window just above me, down the stairs, drop it off a window … or just throw it the usual way, without the "shitshitshit grenade grenade" of windows not being grenade-compatible - remember the recent-ish mp5-based hotel defense mission? Basically I like the flexibility. I dislike the absolute precision, but again - that can be fixed, it’s not broken by design, IMHO. :slight_smile:

Although it’s not just up to me, true that.

Setting aside how well it works and the exact details of the implementation I can see why Highway hates it. For some people this is not what ArmA is about. A magic HUD trail showing how the grenade will travel sort of takes a big crap on everyone who has been developing their grenade skills to the point where they can chuck em through tiny little windows and place them exactly where they want to go. Lets be honest this is autoaim for grenades.

On the other hand I am rubbish at throwing grenades and I would really benefit from grenade autoaim!

This mod follows the same logic of STHud - a system that might not be realistic but exists in order to solve the problem of not having realistic feedback. I personally think living without STHud is possible because there are alternative feedbacks that can be used (voice/speech, TrackIR, your eyes) however there are no alternative feedbacks for grenade throwing and most grenades end up too long, too short or completely wrong.

I fully endorse this mod addition. :thumb:

Personaly I wouldn’t mind it if it was limited with feedback and it was less immerssion-invading and screen obscuring.
Fading line/dots with some degree of inaccuracy and maybe smaller/lack of granade viewmodel would help. It just feels bad to carry a gun with 2 hands and have a frag in front of your face with artificial throwing arc.

[quote user_id=“1171274” avatar=“” name=“Abuk”]Personaly I wouldn’t mind it if it was limited with feedback and it was less immerssion-invading and screen obscuring.
Fading line/dots with some degree of inaccuracy and maybe smaller/lack of granade viewmodel would help. It just feels bad to carry a gun with 2 hands and have a frag in front of your face with artificial throwing arc.[/quote]
The visible grenade has an important function of telling you how it’s going to be thrown - with power (vertical model), lobbed (model tilted horizontally), behind you (model upside down), etc.

Currently, it’s too soon to judge the book by its cover - ACE3 developers may integrate a different version to what Dslyecxi presented (there are already some changes done/scheduled), so let’s just wait & test the final product to see if it’s that bad or whether it makes sense for us (like st_hud - you can call that cheating in a similar way).

And we’ll see how hard it is to customize it & send patches to ACE3, the biggest issues mentioned here might be resolvable in a reasonable time/effort, depending on the code structure.

So far we only get the cover to judge :slight_smile: Once we get the content then we can decide ofc. But its good to have first impression and see potential flaws/advantages.

[user avatar=“” name=“Abuk”]1171274[/user] - I’m ok with either way you guys decide, but will we have a choice considering it’s in new Ace? What I mean, can it be turned off (in case you decide we don’t need it)?

It’s going to be a separate ace_grenadethrowing.pbo, so we can just exclude it (like ace_markers.pbo, IIRC, which would conflict with swt_markers).

It’s funny to see how different players have different definitions of "immersion breaking" or "unrealistic".

You can see GPS at all times on your HUD even though you don’t see your character holding it, same with compass. So you can shoot and look at GPS and compass at the same time. Very immersive breaking (to some). With only a glance, you know how many mags you have left, you don’t even have to open up your bag, that is your inventory. When a player on other side of the map creates a map marker you immediately see that map marker on your map, even if he is out of your radio range. Talk about realism… There are plenty of other "unrealistic" features we use during our gameplay.

As someone mentioned before, some realism is always going to be sacrificed for the sake of enjoyment in game, or compensation for other part of "realism". Main advantage of this mod is that it tells you if your grenade will clip against an object. In real life you have pretty good knowledge of where your throw is going to land the grenade, but specially if you’re going to throw a grenade into an object (or invisible wall). You’re also able to throw grenades through windows into or out of a building, something you can’t do with vanilla Arma. This mod allows you all these features.

At 4:38 timestamp you can see that he made a very lucky throw. The trajectory ends up before the window, which is about 10-15 meters away. It really doesn’t seem to be that much of an overkill, but I’m sure ACE team is going to make sure they don’t implement some "arcady" feature.

I agree with you [user avatar=“” name=“Ryujin”]11355973[/user]. I would still model that differently. For example, why not simply zoom in the area where the grenade is going to go through?

I would welcome a straight dotted line, to serve as a surface permeability check (to know where the grenade can fly through) instead of the throwing arc, but then it’s not me implementing the mod. :slight_smile: