SPOILERS! Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi

Just seen it and thought it was great. At the end of the opening crawl I thought oh no, another ‘Empire Strikes Back’ escape from Hoth remake, but I was pleasantly surprised. New story, new plot, new charactors, different direction. I understand that this movie has split audiences. As a die hard fan (who thinks ‘Phantom Menace’ isn’t actually that bad, so think of me what you will) I didn’t like ‘Force Awakens’ as was too much of a remake, but I liked this one as it was different, but I hear the ‘die hards’ feel the opposite.

What did you guys think?

It was a pretty amusing film. Somehow i did not like the part when Luke all of the sudden explained the force like it was something nobody never was talking or thinking about, for me this was a little bit of the grid. I liked the parts with Chewbacca and that weird animal, (funny scenes in the Falcon) but at the same time it seemed a little bit forced. There is just to much stuff i have already seen in other films, don’t know why it bothers me with this one.

I don’t think it was a super movie… but that’s just my opinion.
I really liked "Rogue One" as a more serious part of the franchise.

Worse than TFA tbh. At least TFA stuck with a tested method, even if it did it poorly. TLJ had major plot holes, forced characters and a lot of stuff just felt ridiculous. Major SW fan, love the EU. Disney are killing this series for me.

I’m disappointed with it. Pretty much sharing 90-95% opinion with Mack:

[youtube]I Hate The Last Jedi (Rant with HUGE SPOILERS) - YouTube

Didn’t expect a lot and got even less in return. Star Wars was always a space soap opera but this time it has become one of those really silly Mexican series. They have gone overboard several times crossing the line of possible in SW universe towards the "yeah right". Kids loved it though so let’s say targeted audience got what they wanted.

Another PoV comparing the previous trilogy with the newer movies in terms of plot logic:

[youtube]D81f1M7IwSg[/youtube]

Leia floating through space and doing all kinds of Force boogaloos like she somehow knew how to use the force just broke my immersion for the whole duration of the movie. Feels like Disney doesn’t even care that a jedi was supposed to be training for sometime and by a master to even achieve rock lifting…Rei did it just because Mickey Mouse wanted so. Leia as well. Kylo should be at least 10x more powerfull than everyone for the amount of training and supposedly how strong he should be with the force…

Also it doesn’t really feel like Star Wars. The movie was OK as a weekend movie for a date or something, but it felt underwhelming in the whole Star Wars universe. You have all these massive wars in the cannon lore, like the Old Republic wars, even the clone wars and all of that and the first 6 movies+Rogue One all managed to show that this is a galactic war, truly afecting the lives of billions on multiple planets. The sequels though? They feel like 2 children fighting in some corner of the galaxy literally nobody cares about. It doesn’t feel epic for me after all the other things that already happened in the Galaxy, this is just some space Pew Pew and some small scale planet attacks…If Rey wins…so what? If Kylo wins…so what? Oh noes it’s a semi Sith with an army powerfull enough to maybe take over a Solar System or two, but they talk about the whole galaxy being in danger and I just can’t see the epicness that a Star Wars movie should have.

To clarify, I am one of those that consider the Originals to be the better MOVIES overall for their character development but the thing I love most in any Universe is the lore and I liked the Prequels better in that sense. The prequels show how truly powerful a Jedi was, or a Sith, capable of singlehandedly turning the tides of battle and while the Originals were limited by their times, Disney has no reason to make everything feel so underwhelming and small, in a Universe so full of potential.

Still liked TLJ more than TFA just for the fact that Rey was less of a Mary Sue and that it had some interesting ideas (Rey and Kylo almost falling for eachother when you least expect that) but Disney dropped the ball anyway and dexided to go the safe route.

This sounds awful like new Star Trek movies, doesn’t feel like Star Trek anymore (not to even mention STD).

PS. moved thread to multimedia forum.

It was a bit of a shit show tbf. Extremely contrived, dumb writing. Made me cringe. It was like a marvel movie. … poorly timed jokes throughout, could have cut half of it. Fuck that casino planet, cut the whole thing.

imo the changes they should have made

  • po prank calls random intern on bridge, not the general who committed genocide last movie. Its tone death to make this guy the comic relief for the whole film he’s just a whipping boy.
  • finn remains in coma for a bit longer, so that he wakes up when he has something productive to do. Po manages to launch his fighter before the hangar is destroyed, leavng him unable to partake in mutiny, and the contrived conflict between "toxic male" po and the purple hair lady who is meaninglessly obtuse and deceptive. Also gets to have cool dogfight with kylo ren. He’s unable to dock again.
  • Admiral akbar survives, bridge survives, no dumb space leia scene. Demonstrate she is a force user by having her redirect the proton torpedo like luke did to blow up the death star in new hope.
  • Cut whole casino bullshit. The whole "capitalism is bad" message falls flat when disney is milking you for money with porg plushies.
  • Admiral akbar rams the enemy ship as last resort and gets a glorious death instead of a brief glossed over one. Purple hair lady is part of skeleton crew and is first mate, allows you to experience the human emotion of the scene.
  • final battle is bigger and more climactic with less stand-off. Make proper use of visuals
  • Make Rey less of a mary sue, or even better have her turn to the grey side with Kylo Ren, or at least maintain a correspondance through space magic. Make them ying and yang.
  • Keep luke alive until the end of the third movie, don’t kill him off now. All I can remember of him now is he drank green milk out of the nipple of a space walrus. A metaphor for capitalism maybe.
  • Sadly Carrie fisher has past away. The writers probably intended for her to play a large role in the next movie, but it can’t be. Without an original human caste-member the next movie will run out of good-will with old star wars fans if it hasn’t already. I’m convinced they will mishandle the situation somehow in the next film. As sad as it might be, It may have been better for pacing and continuity for Leia to die in this movie around the time Han died in the last film to avoid any CG

Overall it frustrated me and I disliked how none of the characters expressed any introspection or regret for their idiocy. Kylo Ren was great, but eh… the writers for most of the movie were shit, and it really felt like they were just thinking they were clever or funny when they were completely ignoring the tone. Like a marvel movie, as I said.

An attempt to explain the changes and Hamills views.

[youtube]Xw0IR6fJlV0[/youtube]

[youtube]5ZbkiIblFLQ[/youtube]

Just saw it and cannot really understand who anyone cannot like it. I saw Return of the Jedi in the cinema when it came out and I even played the first Star Wars RPG by West End games. I am a superfan but of a previous generation than the ones that read a whole lot of novels and played the computer games that created the extended universe and perhaps that is why I do not have a problem with it breaking "established rules".

On the one hand these films are criticised for too many call backs and not being original and on the other they are criticised for changing things and making a new story. In this film the call backs were subtlety undercut. The plot involves a small number of heroes coming up with a convoluted plot that involves trying to turn off some gizmo that makes it impossible to fight the baddies by finding some special wonder guy who can help them. So far so Star Wars except in this case it fails and makes things worse. Almost as if history turns on ideas and movements rather than a small bunch of elite heroes.

Anyway I liked the politics about war and the rich making money off of the suffering of the poor and the down-trodden, it seemed appropriate for the times. If you think it is hypocritical for a corporation to make money off of such a message then entertainment is going to be pretty samey, after all it takes a lot of money to make a movie like this so if you can sneak in a little bit of a message about exploitation and money being made from war then why not.

It wasn’t a perfect movie, nothing is. For me the three worst parts were: How can Rey swim? She grew up on a desert planet! Admiral Ackbar just died off screen! It was a bit late for the Porg to complain about Chewie eating it’s friend when he had already plucked and roasted it, should have pulled the cute face when he first caught your mate!

AKBAR DESERVED BETTER

Just saw the movie. I saw this thread for a while and didn’t want to click it before I saw it. I do not get all the hate this movie is getting from everyone in this thread (with the exception of teddy). I liked the movie and the plot was good as well. Sure there were a couple of things that might have been able to been executed beter but I like to keep in mind that there are so many different characters with their personalities that have to forfill a purpose. Ofcourse there are going to be some things that seem a bit rash if you need to include the story of like 15 important persons.

Now one of the few things I absolutely did not like is the way that Kylo killed the emperor. The guy is all like ''yeah i can see your mind and shit so you cannot do anything without me noticing". Meanwhile he’s multitasking like crazy using both hands, turning the lightsaber around 90 degrees and proceeding to just poke him with it.

I find it fascinating how many different points of view on this movie and Star Wars in general exist.

For example - another view from Matt Colville (a professional writer) that I don’t think was explored:

[youtube]HC8vSlSsbwI[/youtube]

my pov is similar, as a hobbyist writier… I dislike the tone deafness and plot holes of modern passable movies. I tend to dissect movies a bit more and not forgive things like that. I just have ocd I guess

Really interesting thoughts from Matt Colville. Except the point of the film, as I see it anyway, is that even a failure in one battle does not mean total defeat if you get away and there are still people left who can carry on the fight. The film is not pointless, lots of stuff happens. Desperate plans fail or barely leave anyone left. But they do not quite get wiped out. Plus the ex-stormtrooper who who is really naive learns how the world/galaxy really works.

As to why Luke doesn’t go fight in person. Isn’t that obvious? If he was there in person he would not have created the legend of being the unbeatable super jedi who then inspires the kids at the end. If you stand in front of a dozen super AT-ATs that let rip with everything then you are disintegrated. You do not buy time for the rebels to escape, you just leave a smear in the salt.

[quote user_id=“9240990” avatar=“https://assets-cloud.enjin.com/users/9240990/avatar/medium.1579262273.jpeg” name=“Teddy”]Just saw it and cannot really understand who anyone cannot like it. I saw Return of the Jedi in the cinema when it came out and I even played the first Star Wars RPG by West End games. I am a superfan but of a previous generation than the ones that read a whole lot of novels and played the computer games that created the extended universe and perhaps that is why I do not have a problem with it breaking "established rules".

On the one hand these films are criticised for too many call backs and not being original and on the other they are criticised for changing things and making a new story. In this film the call backs were subtlety undercut. The plot involves a small number of heroes coming up with a convoluted plot that involves trying to turn off some gizmo that makes it impossible to fight the baddies by finding some special wonder guy who can help them. So far so Star Wars except in this case it fails and makes things worse. Almost as if history turns on ideas and movements rather than a small bunch of elite heroes.

Anyway I liked the politics about war and the rich making money off of the suffering of the poor and the down-trodden, it seemed appropriate for the times. If you think it is hypocritical for a corporation to make money off of such a message then entertainment is going to be pretty samey, after all it takes a lot of money to make a movie like this so if you can sneak in a little bit of a message about exploitation and money being made from war then why not.

It wasn’t a perfect movie, nothing is. For me the three worst parts were: How can Rey swim? She grew up on a desert planet! Admiral Ackbar just died off screen! It was a bit late for the Porg to complain about Chewie eating it’s friend when he had already plucked and roasted it, should have pulled the cute face when he first caught your mate![/quote]

I don’t like it because it’s:

  • overfetched
  • copied
  • predictable
  • breaks the laws of the Star Wars World

Interesting points from Colville on the prequals:

[youtube]Mj2KmxpJuT0[/youtube]

I dislike how the prequals were "close" but bad. They could have been great with subtle edits. Again the new trilogies, although posessing a very curret sense of humour and marvel formula, as well as adding technobabble that has no place in star wars, terrible terrible writing, it actually has, or had the potential to be really thought provoking. It should have focussed more on how luke had come to the conclusion that the grey side is the best side… The duality of human nature has been observed and commented on for centuries, and like the internal conflict of a single human it is reflected in a large society too. Collectivivist, Individualist. both the light and dark dip their toes into these concepts. Nietzsche much?

Polarity in the universe only serves to divide and perpetuate war and conflict. It’s synonymous with the attitudes of today, with people on the liberal side of the political spectrum meaning well, but also being idealistic about human nature, and totalitarians being pessimistic about human nature and usually for reasons they see as justified trying to control things with an iron fist. It has the potential to actually comment on this light and dark demonization and expose the middle way as a viable path, through Rey and Kylo. Anakin, and Kylo for example (And I think Finn should too being a stormtrooper) begin to think that the republic is inneficient, decentralized, bureaucratic, easily manipulated and corrupt, and that the purest form of government is 1 rule. Luke, and Rey being peasants from batshit nowhere has yet to form any political oppinion, but it’s blatantly obvious from their interactions with the empire/first order that it’s evil, fascist, totalitarian and with extremist views.

I want to see them both distance themselves from the first order and resistance. Kylo is already be going down that path, wanting to wipe the galaxy clean of both the idealistic foundation of a republic that gives rise to tyranny, and the birth right claimed by tyrants that often fosters rebellion and the formation of republic. Most importantly destroy the jedi, let them come to an end. Something Luke wants too as they, like people are easily driven by their emotions and convictions and command so much power that they are dangerous and should not be honed by anyone. let chaos rain until balance is achieved, like a cleansing forest fire, doing more good for a forest than harm in the long run, like a nature parallel. Kylo and Rey should go full apathy.

We ourselves are probably in the midst of one of these natural cycles. Rome was a kingdom. Tarqinius Superbus was removed from power and the republic was formed, It too fell, and gave rise to an Empire, lead by Julius Caesar. Ultimately his empire died. France was a Kingdom, Louis XVI was removed from power, and the republic was formed. That republic then gave rise to an Empire, lead by Napoleon Bonaparte. Ultimately his empire died. Those auras, and the strength of the leaders, as well as the faith the people put in them decay. The leaders turn to Tyranny. Rebellion begins, in some cases succeeding. In those cases power is awarded to the people. Before long oligarchy grips us, and the system is manipulated for the gain of the few. In some cases we demonize the republic for this, and embrace tyranny again, by giving too much power to a populist who re-writes the laws that govern us. All the while the gap between right and left grows wider and wider, leading to more and more refined and extreme positions that build to maximum incompatibility. if one side grows stronger, the repercussions and backlash from the other side will be huge.

I’m not saying star was should spell it out for us, but could do a better job at exploring the topic subtly. The jedi hoard their teachings and are super stuffy and suppress their emotions from birth, the dark side are ambitious and indulge emotions and ego too much, they leave their compassion behind and embrace efficient ruthless sociopathy. Neither way is good or at least viable for human beings. it’s like sexual repression leading to you becomming a sex addict. BALANCE is the way. it doesn’t work with jedi, adult jedi who aren’t priorly brainwashed try to become zen and abandon ego and emotions, but it’s not viable for them to continue to exist and suppress their nature, they either become apathetic cowards, or lean towards the dark side when something they care about is threatened. They thought anakin would bring balance to the force, and to some degree he did… by killing of all the jedi appart from two. Their idea of balance is favouring the light. It’s back and forth, the dark and the light, a natural cycle. It continues. As always it’s open to interpretation, a hardcore light-sider will always want the good guys to win and maybe it’ll go over their heads, and since most of the audience is children they probably don’t get to think about it that deeply. The Eureka moment I mean, of… Huh… this happened before didn’t it? in the prequels… Waaaaait this is a vicious cycle of swinging between the light and dark that only results in more death, and all is as it should be? Can the pendulum be settled in an equilibrium or is this our destiny? Is the world-view that Luke and eventually Kylo share only ammount to Apathy? I think Luke gets it. The perpetual wars and the swinging between collectivism, idealism, both dark and light, are only there because the jedi and sith refuse to let go of their power.

Honestly I think those guys in a galaxy far far away are just doomed. Here in the real world at least, we can at least fathom a way to find a balance between our ying and yang, our selflessness and selfishness, our good, our evil, our collectivism, our individualism, our apollonian and our dionysian. Thankfully, we are cut off from the force. But maybe… maybe that means there is no method of population control in our own galaxy.

Maybe the force was constructed to regulate life and ensure war and desolation. keep everything in balance.

Still curious why no one has compared The Last Jedi with what is undoubtedly the greatest Star Wars film ever made!

[youtube]Kqtyw18jXyI[/youtube]

So awesome they made another one! That’s right it’s a Fairy Tale, just like Star Wars should be! Plus it is cannon that there are Force Witches who can change shape!

[youtube]pyvjc_20XpQ[/youtube]