PvP vs PvE

I know it’s a bit early, but I am curious as to how often each type of event is likely to happen?

I believe this is the first official PvP mission in Carpe Noctem. We’ll see how it goes and if it goes well we might play them more often. Today, we’re "testing the water" so to say. :slight_smile:

That’s a good question because next mid-week’s OP is also PVP. It’s safe to assume that some people don’t like PVP…

yeah, that’s what I was thinking. and some people love it, so I guess it will depend on how many people show up and that

These are, indeed, tests. We’re dipping our toes in and seeing what the reactions are. Personally, I dislike PvP. Cooperating is my game. There’s nothing for it but to see what the response is either way.

I like cooperative aswell, but if you think about it, you can have both in one. I love PvP because you can apply what you have learned in a direct way. Fighting against AI (after 5 years) gets a bit boring (from my point of view) you will start to understand how they behave and know their next moves. In PvP you don’t have that, your team has to work in a cooperative way inorder to achieve their goal, so at the end, it is still cooperative.

What I can understand from people that say they don’t like PvP is that they don’t like to play against real players. Well… I get it but still…

I feel bad that I can’t attend this one, hopefully will attend next one.

PvP is my jam. I hope more will come.

[justify]We are currently testing a lot of things with the new PvP mission format. Mainly the PvP template itself (as you saw yesterday it still has some flaws), the gear balance as well as the actual demand for PvP. The main reason why I released PvP this month is because so many people were asking for it, but there’s no way of telling in advance whether or not they’ll actually enjoy it / show up on a continuous basis.

Personally I really like PvP because it does punish your mistakes and trains your senses to look for possible threats, not just the ones you know of. Due to the lack of immediate and clever response to the players action a fight against AI is a lot more forgiving. AI never flanks the enemy with intent - even with MCC the flanking is simulated and "luck" based since it roles a dice on whether or not they choose to flank left or right. The same goes for using concealment appropriately or sneaking up to an enemy position without firing shots or exposing through skyline or setting up an ambush that can adapt itself to the incoming force.

Our trainings give you the base skills and knowledge to survive in both Coop and PvP, Coop lets you experience those skills in a "dangerous" but still forgiving environment, but PvP is where your skills will be refined and perfected. Extensive radio chatter: gets you killed. Being on "yelling" or "normal" when you shouldn’t be: gets you killed. Bunching up: gets you killed. Not scanning your sectors in a 360 while halting: gets you killed. etc. etc. Everytime we played PvP in the previous community suddenly each player was on their A-game because they knew what they are up against. The same was true yesterday night.

What we still have to get used to is adapting to the benefits of smoke in PvP. I saw very little application of smoke hand grenades and none of the leaders on both sides used the smoke grenade launchers to mask advances over open fields or create diversions (tricking the defenders into thinking you’ll attack from a certain direction). I’ll try to balance the loadouts a bit so that every man has access to at least 2 smoke handgrenades.

In the future PvP will most likely be our weekday operation (Mondays and Wednesdays) because we can easily play two missions and still close shop on time so everyone can participate without having to quit early because of work the next day. Coop missions will most likely be moved to Fridays permanently. But this is not yet set in stone, we’ll see how things take off in the next couple of weeks.[/justify]

I’ve been playing ARMA COOP for ~2 years and it’s ‘fun’.

Yesterday was my first group PVP and I can tell you, my hands were shaking and my heart was pounding throughout most of it. While lying unconscious on the floor I could hear Abuk tell Clarke the same thing.

Here’s the whole mission from my short-lived perspective:

Clarke did you actually see me? Or just the barrel of my gun? I died so fast :frowning:

That was excellent, very interesting to see it from your pov. I am looking forward to when we get a nice spectator mode worked out and can observe the action once we go down.

I had never felt such adrenaline rush in a long time. Also I actualy felt the immersion, importance and danger of the mission, thus improving situational awareness and decisionmaking. Having 1 life made it also special, but not that punishing thanks to short time of mission and more rounds to come.

Just watched the video. Great montage, loved the transition!
Also feels like I’m a freaking slenderman from your perspective and Clarke has 6th sense for crawling danger :smiley:
Thanks for capturing the material!

[justify]At first I thought this was desync because from my perspective I saw your entire left half of your body plus the majority of your head. But after watching it multiple times I believe this was a case of Arma not allowing you to see me because the rifle was in your right hand. Maybe if you stuck to the wall and before peaking switched the rifle onto the left you’d probably gotten me first due to smaller exposure. But in the end this is just speculation and you got me real good the first time around. Had a heart attack when you first came in and I was checking the foldmap. xD[/justify]

[justify]Just wanted to quickly share this video by CHKilroy. It shows the effective use of a Base of Fire (BoF) element to supress enemies and while the maneuver element attacks the pinned force from a different direction or moves to a better position without being detected. This is a tactic we rarely use against AI due to their general passive interest in flying bullets, but against players this is extremely useful.[/justify]


Yep. I notice they usually get like 15-20 magazines per player when they play PVP and shoot alot of rounds all over the place. In our PVP I used less than 1 magazine :smiley:

In Dslyecxi’s Beer thing video from a few days ago, he’s being suppressed by MMG and others for over 15 minutes, it’s amazing.

We need more mags !

[justify]It’s easy to say we need more of X but first one has to think of the gear balance as a whole. Shacktac uses a lot of vanilla gear and Killoch’s uniforms / vests which are based on vanilla carry values. Thus their carry capacity is a lot larger to begin with because plate carriers and vanilla uniforms can carry an ungodly amount of mags. Another consideration to take is that ShackTac does not use AGM and thus doesn’t need to fill up on bandages and morphine sticks, they only get one first aid kit each. I could increase ammo but that would mean to increase backpack sizes of all units, meaning that you will be easier spotted in concealment and when prone.

Shacktac needs more ammo because they have 120 (!) member PvP / Coop sessions which last often well over 2 hours within large AOs. Their riflemen carry 15 mags, ammo carriers 20-25, ARs between 6-8 boxes depending on the box size of the LMG. Our PvPs are 24 players max. in small AOs, nobody ran out of ammo last time. FTLs and AARs can still organise very effective BoFs by telling each FT member when to engage, how much ammo to use (example: stop when you reach four mags in total) and in what rate of fire (full auto or controlled steady firing). If ordered to supress without fire rate clarification the ammo won’t last that long, but that would be the FTL’s fault not the loadout. Using an exceptionally large community such as ShackTac for a 1:1 benchmark in gear will not work for us, yet. ;)[/justify]

We need more meat !


hahahah holy **** loved the video! i really wanna be in PvP! as Jeeves said… "thats my jam" pvp helps you improve your skills to the max as you have to be better and better not to be killed! havving one life is also a major factor for it!

Well, I have to say. Leading a fireteam in your first PvP op? Not enviable. Almost as bad as when my second OP in EAGC landed me as the effectual fireteam leader most of the time!