Please leave feedback for this PvP mission.
OPFOR had it a bit rough with vision - maybe might it brighter and adjust the NVG settings to make them more blurry to balance? I don’t really know what else but it was a super fun mission! I had a great time
I think the strengths of the teams weren’t quite balance, we had no advantages other than having more people. we didn’t know what the enemy was after exactly. our choices were to split up and defend each objective with one person, or abandon all but two of them and wait for 40 minutes to get shot at and try to locate the attackers.
The general setup for the mission I like a lot, I think opfor should have fewer, objectives maybe a couple of them ones blufor isn’t even interested in. Opfor should have the ability to [something], see, flashlights, spotlights, maybe a helicopter, armor, intel, or some shit. They could also have something to do other than play NPC’s.
With so many objectives, blufor can sneak around freely for hours while Opfor has nothing to do.
I really appreciate the rare pvp thing, thanks.
Take everything below as hopefully constructive criticism. While it seems like I’m shitting on your work, I do understand that not everybody spends 20 hours testing a mission like I tend do.
From an OPFOR PoV, I think there was quite a lot wrong with the mission, but before I get to the details I feel the fantasy of the scenario was mis-identified.
The mission Drewski played and (presumably) this was trying to emulate focuses on badly armed (short range SMGs) elite operators sneaking onto an enemy-controlled island and stealing intel, blowing some things up, and barely escaping the clutches of the overwhelming force with helicopters, search lights and light armored vehicles with HMGs suppressing the last known specop location.
The fun for the attackers lies in proper planning, teamwork (a rule that the team cannot split and attack 4 different objectives at once), evading patrols, planting charges, causing distractions (blowing up non-objective things), etc. … The fun for the defenders is keeping control of the island by splitting into 2-3 men patrols, each with an armed armored fast vehicle with 1 or more powerful spotlights (like the static one on the airfield), and trying to find the attackers, calling for reinforcements the second they’re found.
The action sequence is then attackers trying to escape pincer movements of the defenders (eg. another rule preventing them from using a submarine to hit&run without giving defenders a chance), eventually getting out of the AO with a combination of hiding (in bushes, buildings, forests), barely escaping the defenders.
The power balance has to be in favor of the defenders. They must not feel like fish in a barrel (flashlight-less russians in complete artificial darkness), waiting to be hunted and shot by the unseen forces.
…
With that said, here are some suggestions:
- Adjust the weather and time of day to make the landscape visible with a naked eye, but impossible to resolve fine details (soldier movement) without illumination. This is done with a combination of day-of-year, day-of-month, hour-of-day and overcast percentage, each having a different kind of effect. I made a video about adjusting this for NVGs a while back and (if you want) I can do something similar for NVG-less missions. It’s tricky because high overcast actually artificially dims flashlights, so the 80+ % that the Sneaky mission used killed any light dynamic range.
- Make a custom faction for OPFOR. Split them into 2-3 men groups from the start. Don’t pre-assign them to specific roles. Give all groups long-range radios and each group on their own short range channel.
[list] - This would also dramatically cut-down any OPFOR planning time as they would be basically ready-to-go without deciding how to split.
[/list] - Obviously fix the OPFOR loadout - give everyone flashlights (on flashlight-compatible weapons), give every team 20+ flares and not the broken kind like we had, but the ones we use for CNTO Russian faction, which have brightness fixed.
- Weaken BLUFOR’s weaponry - they must be incentivized to avoid engagement if at all possible and only shoot in self defense or to eliminate an unsuspecting sentry. Drewski’s group had SMGs and I think that’s the right choice.
- Give OPFOR armed vehicles, one per team + some spares, attachTo the big spotlight to the HMG turret (or create custom beam lightsource originating from the turret). It should be possible for BLUFOR to destroy it, but not without revealing their presence.
[list] - Also probably have OPFOR NPCs guarding the main OPFOR base, so BLUFOR cannot just roll in and steal vehicles. Stealing in the field is fair game.
[/list] - Give OPFOR an unarmed helicopter with spotlights - same idea, maybe attach the spotlights to ammo-less miniguns or something.
- Pre-destroy any lighthouses (to a point where they don’t shine) - they’re cool, but their beam is not MP-synced and it could unfairly reveal BLUFOR operatives.
- Leave any street lights in-place, do not disable them (I saw the script). Evading infrastructure lights and making critical decisions whether to shoot some of them (giving away hints of presence) is a key part of the BLUFOR gameplay.
- Prepare all objectives and use scripting to select only some of them for BLUFOR, rather than hand-crafting specific objectives for the mission (which I think is how this was done). It’s more work upfront, but makes it a lot more replayable.
[list] - Alternatively, don’t use the Tasks system and just let BLUFOR pick any objectives they want. This is self-balancing; if there is an easily-reachable objective, it will be better defended in a second/third round by the attackers, because it’s a known weakpoint. This can lead to amazing cat&mouse planning from both sides.
[/list] - Make it one-life for BLUFOR, limit OPFOR respawns to once every 15 minutes (can be automated via "wave respawn"). Don’t reward BLUFOR for leaving their unconscious operatives behind "because they will respawn", make it a medical challenge.
- If you haven’t already, make all BLUFOR medics/engineers/explosive specialists/uavhackers, so they can take care of each other. They should have comprehensive training, after all.
- Make it obvious to OPFOR when BLUFOR completes an objective - explosion sound + flash for the "blow up" kind, maybe some "we detected a hacked computer at The Factory" 60 seconds after BLUFOR hacks it, etc. … IOW BLUFOR must not be able to complete an objective in complete silence without any hint to OPFOR (even a rough estimate, "in the north", is fine).
- As hinted above, give both sides some extra rules, whether enforced by player honor or scripting, ie.
[list] - BLUFOR must always assault only one objective at a time, no splitting. (Maybe some limited splitting is fine? … Ie. for creating a diversion.)
- BLUFOR must use an invisible means of insertion (scripted paradrop? submarine?) only for the initial insertion, not for repositioning. (A scripted solution would let players choose from several pre-set insertion positions + teleport, without providing a sub.) … An assault boat is too easy to find with a helicopter.
- OPFOR cannot use BLUFOR equipment (mainly NVGs).
- etc.
[/list]
All this seems to kinda favor OPFOR, but remember - BLUFOR has a drone with thermals, and they all have NVGs, they can pick when to hide from a searchlight and when to move. They should be forced to make difficult choices (ie. avoiding a well lit up road, specific approach onto an illuminated airport, etc.) and they can be literally anywhere - inside hangars, inside any buildings, in bushes, etc.
They should be forced to carefully plan their exfil from an objective and how to hide and escape from the inevitable pursuit of OPFOR that will likely swarm the objective they are about to hit.
I would probably avoid mortars altogether - they might be a fun way to force BLUFOR to reposition, but they kill too indirectly where PvP is most fun when it’s direct.
edit: some more details I’d hate to forget when modifying this mission
- decrease max allowed explosive timer, ace_explosives_customTimerMax to 30 seconds, to force BLUFOR into using the limited-range M57 remote detonator instead of essentially avoiding gameplay by powergaming (mining multiple objectives with a precalculated time offset, blowing up everything needed without giving OPFOR a chance to locate them)
- maybe insert BLUFOR via a slingloaded RHIB, giving them a chance to reposition through water, but not without a risk
- have OPFOR helicopter spool up only after a first objective is cleared (preventing the RHIB from being spotted earlier)
- maybe introduce some objective chaining for BLUFOR - finding pieces of intel silently (without alerting OPFOR) and destroying / hacking nearby objective(s) based on what the intel says … could be easily scripted, …
- maybe give BLUFOR subsonic (smg) ammo, to make them even harder to precisely locate (no sonic crack)
- give OPFOR some trip flares, which are like trip mines, but send a flare skywards instead … could be a great panic moment if some BLUFOR triggers them
- maybe try a fixed respawn time after death instead of known respawn times, to avoid metagaming from BLUFOR (attacking right after reinsert time), 10 minutes could honestly be enough for OPFOR to prevent them from suicide-charging
Great mission, had fun, agreee with [user avatar=“https://assets-cloud.enjin.com/users/13633351/avatar/small.1434890353.jpeg” name=“Freghar”]13633351[/user] those changes would make an already great mission excellent.
Hoping to see more PvP in the future 
Playing BLUFOR was great, I’m sorry OPFOR had issues with visibility. Great teamwork for us though, really well played!
Also that’s a very interesting mission concept, thanks for putting it together and hopefully we’ll have a re-run of this. Cheers man
Made most of the suggested changes Freghar mentioned last night after the OP. Will have a look at those outstanding changes and look to run it again so OPFOR have the advantage and have more fun.
I think Freghar made an excellent post showing the strengths and weaknesses of the OP. I agree with almost everything he said so I’m just gonna say that I would love to play the rework of this in the future. Thanks Dachi!
I did extensive mission testing and spent a long time on this mission. Unfortunately, a lot of the scripting you mention below I can not do so 20 hours of testing on top of the time to make the mission would quadruple due to me having to learn how to code the additions you have mentioned below.
[quote user_id=“13633351” avatar=“https://assets-cloud.enjin.com/users/13633351/avatar/medium.1434890353.jpeg” name=“Freghar”]From an OPFOR PoV, I think there was quite a lot wrong with the mission, but before I get to the details I feel the fantasy of the scenario was mis-identified.
The mission Drewski played and (presumably) this was trying to emulate focuses on badly armed (short range SMGs) elite operators sneaking onto an enemy-controlled island and stealing intel, blowing some things up, and barely escaping the clutches of the overwhelming force with helicopters, search lights and light armored vehicles with HMGs suppressing the last known specop location.
The fun for the attackers lies in proper planning, teamwork (a rule that the team cannot split and attack 4 different objectives at once), evading patrols, planting charges, causing distractions (blowing up non-objective things), etc. … The fun for the defenders is keeping control of the island by splitting into 2-3 men patrols, each with an armed armored fast vehicle with 1 or more powerful spotlights (like the static one on the airfield), and trying to find the attackers, calling for reinforcements the second they’re found.
The action sequence is then attackers trying to escape pincer movements of the defenders (eg. another rule preventing them from using a submarine to hit&run without giving defenders a chance), eventually getting out of the AO with a combination of hiding (in bushes, buildings, forests), barely escaping the defenders.
The power balance has to be in favor of the defenders. They must not feel like fish in a barrel (flashlight-less russians in complete artificial darkness), waiting to be hunted and shot by the unseen forces.[/quote]
I tried to achieve this, however, I failed to see how hard this would be for OPFOR the cause is seen in a few points you make below, the main ones being visibility and lack of lights for OPFOR.
[quote user_id=“13633351” avatar=“https://assets-cloud.enjin.com/users/13633351/avatar/medium.1434890353.jpeg” name=“Freghar”]
[list=1]
[*]Adjust the weather and time of day to make the landscape visible with a naked eye, but impossible to resolve fine details (soldier movement) without illumination. This is done with a combination of day-of-year, day-of-month, hour-of-day and overcast percentage, each having a different kind of effect. I made a video about adjusting this for NVGs a while back and (if you want) I can do something similar for NVG-less missions. It’s tricky because high overcast actually artificially dims flashlights, so the 80+ % that the Sneaky mission used killed any light dynamic range.[/quote]
I have made these changes by removing overcast, moonlight is already good and bringing down the fog levels a lot.
[quote user_id=“13633351” avatar=“https://assets-cloud.enjin.com/users/13633351/avatar/medium.1434890353.jpeg” name=“Freghar”]
[*]Make a custom faction for OPFOR. Split them into 2-3 men groups from the start. Don’t pre-assign them to specific roles. Give all groups long-range radios and each group on their own short range channel.
- This would also dramatically cut-down any OPFOR planning time as they would be basically ready-to-go without deciding how to split.
[*]Obviously fix the OPFOR loadout - give everyone flashlights (on flashlight-compatible weapons), give every team 20+ flares and not the broken kind like we had, but the ones we use for CNTO Russian faction, which have brightness fixed.[/quote]
I have made these changes, although you can’t have flares and a flashlight so you either want flares or a flashlight. I have given the leads the UGL and flares and then provided a box with normal rifles if they want flashlights over flares but visibility improvements may prevent them from making this decision.
[quote user_id=“13633351” avatar=“https://assets-cloud.enjin.com/users/13633351/avatar/medium.1434890353.jpeg” name=“Freghar”]
[*]Weaken BLUFOR’s weaponry - they must be incentivized to avoid engagement if at all possible and only shoot in self defense or to eliminate an unsuspecting sentry. Drewski’s group had SMGs and I think that’s the right choice.[/quote]
I have made this change.
[quote user_id=“13633351” avatar=“https://assets-cloud.enjin.com/users/13633351/avatar/medium.1434890353.jpeg” name=“Freghar”]
[]Give OPFOR armed vehicles, one per team + some spares, attachTo the big spotlight to the HMG turret (or create custom beam lightsource originating from the turret). It should be possible for BLUFOR to destroy it, but not without revealing their presence.
[]Give OPFOR an unarmed helicopter with spotlights - same idea, maybe attach the spotlights to ammo-less miniguns or something.
[list][/quote]
If I knew how to do this I would but the best I can do is to attach the searchlights to the front of the armed vehicles and to the sides of the helos, each has buggy cons but works.
[quote user_id=“13633351” avatar=“https://assets-cloud.enjin.com/users/13633351/avatar/medium.1434890353.jpeg” name=“Freghar”]
[*]Also probably have OPFOR NPCs guarding the main OPFOR base, so BLUFOR cannot just roll in and steal vehicles. Stealing in the field is fair game.
[/list][/quote]
Yeah good suggestion I have implemented.
Rgr did not know this and will do so for both suggestions.
[quote user_id=“13633351” avatar=“https://assets-cloud.enjin.com/users/13633351/avatar/medium.1434890353.jpeg” name=“Freghar”]
[*]Prepare all objectives and use scripting to select only some of them for BLUFOR, rather than hand-crafting specific objectives for the mission (which I think is how this was done). It’s more work upfront, but makes it a lot more replayable.
[list]
[*]Alternatively, don’t use the Tasks system and just let BLUFOR pick any objectives they want. This is self-balancing; if there is an easily-reachable objective, it will be better defended in a second/third round by the attackers, because it’s a known weakpoint. This can lead to amazing cat&mouse planning from both sides.
[/list][/quote]
The mission objectives are in pairs of which BLUFOR can decide which one they want to achieve they just have to achieve one of each type. So think this is covered.
[quote user_id=“13633351” avatar=“https://assets-cloud.enjin.com/users/13633351/avatar/medium.1434890353.jpeg” name=“Freghar”]
[]Make it one-life for BLUFOR, limit OPFOR respawns to once every 15 minutes (can be automated via "wave respawn"). Don’t reward BLUFOR for leaving their unconscious operatives behind "because they will respawn", make it a medical challenge.
[]If you haven’t already, make all BLUFOR medics/engineers/explosive specialists/uavhackers, so they can take care of each other. They should have a comprehensive training, after all.[/quote]
Yeah, good points on respawn I hope this would work but it could also end with a mission lasting only as long as the first engagement but again just another approach.
I will comment on the rest when I have time to.
Cheers, if you need some help with the scripting, feel free to ping me on Discord - I know you wanted me to look over it (from some voice conversation), but I honestly forgot and a written reminder wouldn’t have been lost that easily.
I really enjoyed this PvP mission and beg you to do some more. Think you got good feedback from other players but don’t let that stop you, use it to improve existing concept and try again.
I enjoy the raiding aspect of BLUFOR, though wish we didn’t split so much. I suppose OPFOR was bored because their only opening strategy was to wait and patrol around the objectives. That’s the usual issue with attack/defend scenarios, rotating the roles might do the trick.
Having less objectives could improve the intensity of firefights. Giving better weapons to OPFOR though in designed ratio would make it too easy for OPFOR. Last firefight which was basically orchestrated showed that attacking force in well lit environment stand no chance against the defending force. It doesn’t have the numbers nor technological advantage. So be careful with it.
Anyway, great work, keep it up!