Fregh-AI Test

Hey guys

For those who haven’t been following the discussion on our Brainstorming forums, [user avatar=“” name=“Freghar”]13633351[/user] made an amazing AI mod (unofficially called "Fregh-AI") and will be conducting a mini-op scale testing session this Thursday.

This is the third and most likely last testing event for the new AI. If you got time and want to join please sign up on our calendar.

Make sure to follow [user avatar=“” name=“Lastmikoi”]17128302[/user] 's instructions on how to join the dev server with the correct mod pack.

Let’s get as many play-testers as possible. For science! :geek:

I did not propose nor do I condone using such name for the creation. That being said, while developing for World of Warcraft, I made custom AI for Stormwind (SW) and Orgrimmar (OG) guards, with debug output on /salute, etc. And I called the guards SWOGAI warriors. So it’s close.

Make sure to not follow the instructions, the linked google drive file is super outdated.

Instead, make sure to follow [user avatar=“” name=“Lastmikoi”]17128302[/user] 's instructions on:

cough Mikoi made me do it. cough :LOL:

What do you wanna call the mod?

[quote user_id=“11341464” avatar=“” name=“Clarke”]
cough Mikoi made me do it. cough :LOL:

What do you wanna call the mod?[/quote]
I never said you couldn’t call it that, just that I personally cannot get behind something he himself pronounces "Fregay". :slight_smile:

In my opinion, it’s not really something worthy of an official name, it’s just a small part of our cnto-additions. We never called the "old" AI any names. But feel free. :slight_smile:

[user avatar=“” name=“Freghar”]13633351[/user] - can you please write less then 3 paragraphs of recommendations for mission makers (here or somewhere?). It would be useful to avoid slaughter. :slight_smile:

Updated the OP to link the new joining procedure.

[user avatar=“” name=“Freghar”]13633351[/user] Something this awesome deserves a name, so I’ll just call it Freghtastic-AI for now.

Freghar Adjusts Bots To Actually Shoot Tank In Combat - FABTASTIC

Computers Now Target Operators with Armour & Infantry. - CNTO-AI

Firing Reach Extended, Generating Heightened Aggressive Responses - FREGHAR

Bots Use Tactics To Flank Units Camping, Killing at Extended Ranges.

Juvenile Acronyms. Soul Hurts.

Honestly, after testing it with more people, the AI isn’t really that deadly, so no changes (in numbers or otherwise) are needed. At CQB, I feel we had a better chance of survival (assuming proper sector coverage) than with old AI, at long range it didn’t really matter as long as you stay in cover and didn’t piss off anything with HE rounds bigger than 50mm.

That being said, the increased volume of fire and explosions will cause more deaths and probably more frustrating deaths, which is why I was recommending to do the medical change alongside the AI change (in the original topic), so that a tank shell 10 meters away (or an UGL grenade near you) causes heavy injuries rather than an insta death.

I would very much like to avoid situations where we advise MMs to not use AI with UGLs, ATs, MGs, cannons, etc. because it can now kill players.

I guess I would have something for Zeus GMs:

  1. try not to use remote control in combat, it can break immersion a lot
  2. besides spawning units, your two most used modules should be "Reveal enemies" and "Forget enemies"
  3. use "Reveal enemies" to increase the amount of fire in a firefight, because the AI will know the player positions more precisely, thus shooting more
  4. please don’t misuse it outside combat or on players who are not actively shooting, AI spotting simulation is very good and simulates concealment, triangulation, trajectory estimation, shooter position approximation, etc., so the AI will likely have more realistic spotting if an all-seeing Zeus doesn’t interfere
  5. in 99% of cases, don’t use suppressive fire functionality, "Reveal enemies" is sufficient
  6. use "Suppressive Fire (BIS)" to prioritize targets, such as an AI infantry shooting on a helicopter flying overhead
  7. if an AI unit (vehicle) gets stuck and refuses to move to a next waypoint after seeing some enemies, use "Forget enemies" (on the vehicle or its group), it should start moving few seconds later
  8. use green/yellow/red faces in group UI appropriately - a "green face" casually walking unit will have much slower reactions, giving players a bigger chance to not be noticed when ie. sneaking around, … OTOH switch most/all units in an area to "red face" if they should be on alert, making them break formation, take cover and watch sectors

TL;DR - just spawn units and give them waypoints, in the vast majority of cases, they’ll figure stuff on their own.

Bumping this thread to hopefully boost our sign-ups for this Thursday.

After the resent test i don’t have to add much more than this change would be highly appreciated… at least for me!

After your (and Churizo’s?) comment about the russians being more deadly, I looked into it again and cannot reproduce it very reliably, but it happens sometimes. I tried lowering aimingShake, but that just made the enemies hit vastly less and be less effective at suppressing me @ 100m. However it seems that, like with other skills, "1" (max value) seems to have some special meaning that may be causing this. I’ll set it to 0.9 instead, which seems to be very close in aiming accuracy and spraying less, without those insta headshots. Thanks for the feedback!

[user avatar=“” name=“Highway”]13688253[/user] Okay, I was wrong in my post above - it was based on a recent miniop that had wrong server-side skill settings. With the correct ones, the AI (especially regular armies) are significantly more dangerous, on short and long distances. Also vehicles are much more accurate.

This means my recommendations for MMT would be to use assets more strategically and deliberately, rather than spawning a few squads so players have something to shoot at, and use less of them.

My advice to players would be to not underestimate the AI. If you peek twice from the same corner, the AI might be faster. When you’re suppressed (bullets landing next to you, screen shaking), don’t try to be the cowboy. If you see a pile of dead friendlies at an entrance to a mosque courtyard, don’t try to walk outside to figure out what "created" them.

[user avatar=“” name=“Freghar”]13633351[/user] since it happened 2 times, once a guy coming out a wall and the second guy could just have been luck, i’m not sure it’s this bad… After all i heard and what you said i’m sure it was just coincidence, bad timing. I don’t know. Yes they’re harder, but still manageable.

[user avatar=“” name=“Freghar”]13633351[/user] even with the added danger of vehicles and professional armies I still believe the mod brings a ton of features that we really need, especially the aggressive movements of EI and their refusal to give up combat effective vehicles because of flat tires. In vanilla and ASR AI I used to regularly take out BTR’s with an M4 by shooting out two tires. which always felt very gamey to me.

If we notice that certain assets are still too powerful we can always tweak the settings a bit more. Also with the possibility of an upcoming ACE change preventing insta-death there is much room for minor improvements.

Just checking about the aiming shake - I was playing on public server and there was possible to set your own setting, including how realistically you want play - so you cold change in the game your avatár possibilities. (the server is off-line yet :frowning: )

One of the skill setting was "aiming shake" If you had 1, you had full aiming shake like is preseted for the gun, if you had 0.0 you had no aiming shake at all.

The values from 0.0 to 1.0 are not intuitive - one in one case mean best but in second the worst.

I do not know how it with Ace and Ares, but the counter intuitiveness, can create wrong assumptions.

Do not know if you can test those things on your own avatár in game. (I mean the settings on you in game to experience them like the AI does)

An interesting observation from yesterday’s messing about on the server. The AI infantry is fairly easy to kill on medium ranges if ambushed or otherwise surprised. It is very difficulty to fight against if you (the players) are on the losing side.

We were 3 guys clearing a town of ~60 infantry and had accumulated about 40-50 deaths ourselves simply because the enemy was in (almost) every building and we were thus always flanked from some side. AI groups were also spread out across buildings, so one enemy (building) could relay our positions to several others. The result was a bloodbath (of us).

Therefore, like in chess, make sure you always have the upper hand:

  • use recon/uav to gain a tactical advantage
  • use vehicle support (ground or air) as a massive force multiplier
  • lure or fix & flank, use multiple elements to split the enemy attention and draw them thin
  • use artillery (mortars, GBUs) if an area is too infested with units (and no civilians)
  • etc.

Basically, try not to ever go just one team infantry vs one team infantry, because the losses will be ~ equal on both sides when fighting regular armies. Insurgents are fairly okay and easy, so you’re likely to … have fewer losses.

If you ambush a squad of regular army infantry with at least a fireteam of players, you might even survive without losses (unless Zeus cheats and reveals your positions), as the AI takes a while to locate you and return fire. If you’re already in a firefight … well, don’t try to peek twice. Or enter through the same opening twice. If the AI soldiers is aiming at the entrance and is ready to fire, you won’t be faster. Use grenades / enter through different opening.

It comes back to the point that we pretty much never do any Fire and Maneuver… we’ve seen in the Attack Training how well this worked out since EI (AI) was suppressed (lower accuracy) and they did no actually spot the attacking element until the last second.