Coop - Thunder

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Gonna say one thing "DAGGER" Survived the whole mission nuff said!!

Great mission Zcribe.

Myself, [user avatar=“” name=“Obi”]1421263[/user] and [user avatar=“” name=“Pantoufle”]3327235[/user] are officially /THE/ Dagger crew.

ptsd for me and mother… the rest of alpha was recycled a lot

Zeus view. When the upload is done:

[youtube]- YouTube


[user avatar=“” name=“Seb”]7849506[/user] i was so confused, checked 3 times before calling it!

[justify]Really good combined arms missions. I am personally not a fan of them but this time it worked great and i had tons of fun driving/commanding the APC of Bravo. Sallal and i spent a lot of time identifying the enemies first before actually engaging and i believe all the other armored vehicles did that as well, so i am really glad we didn’t have a single friendly fire incident with the vehicles.
About the APCs and their use: Sallal and i were mostly operating the APC as a 2nd fireteam or partially completely detached. I think us being able to communicate with the other armored vehicles directly outside of the convoy, would have helped a lot. If i understood that correctly, the vehicles come with long range radio?
In my opinion, the APC, if it’s with a squad, should have their own 2/3 man fireteam controlling it. That way the squad doesn’t get butchered of important roles and we actually have one complete fireteam + SL + Medic. Sallal was AAR and I was medic and neither of us did their actual role until the vehicle was destroyed in the city.
I think we could have also used the vehicles more as an APC, emphasis on the personnel carrier. After the troops first dismounted the APC was never used as transport. If we have assets like that we should also use them accordingly. If done correctly it can speed up movement massively. I agree that it definitely comes with a risk of the whole squad being blown up by a rocket.

TLDR: Great combined arms missions that I really enjoyed as APC driver/commander. But should talk about the role and use of APCs on Squad level.

As Paladin jet pilot i wanted to give my two cents to the mission

Paladin was used very effectively by Dachi as PLT lead, he called me in regularly which i really liked, nothing is as boring as circling around the AO for 2-3 Hrs without getting any targets assigned.

The first time i was killed as paladin was a great example of what NOT to do as a pilot, which is concentrating on the target too much and "running it in the ground" and overshooting your way of escape with nowhere else to go except in the dirt, so for every pilot: DO NOT TUNNELVISION.

The 2nd time i was downed was just an Arma moment, the game crashed.

And sorry for the friendly fire incident, hope my 30 mm rounds didnt do too big holes in your APCs armor.

Another thing regarding the choice of plane: the used A-10 was from RHS and had no radar on it, therefore i wasnt able to use the mavericks or sidewinders at all, also when i was engaged by AA missles i had no visual indication on where the missle was coming from, only the sound indication thats saying "GET THE HELL OUTTA THERE".
So i think that the plane that the mission maker is putting in the mission should be tried out beforehand to ensure that everything on the plane works, because the new Jets DLC has fucked some modded air assets up.

Right guys some real feedback now.

First off I want to say well done to everyone for a great turn out and performance on this OP.

This is one of the very few times I have ever seen CAS, Artillery, Armour and infantry all being used in a mission nicely, which is in part reason why we might have seen a lack of action at times as infantry because we were using all of our assets available effectively.

Only point I picked up for me were as said on the debrief were Comms between Squads and contact reports including map marking but the majority of that may have been down to ACRE issues which we really need to look at as these comms issues can destroy an OP.

Dagger and the Squads did an excellent job keeping there vehicles safe and this can not be understated.

The mission was very interesting and I thank Zcribe for not destroying us when it must have been frustrating watching us go around or take out most opposition at long range. I liked the transition very much from open terrain to urban terrain as I always enjoy both aspects.

One thing I will say is that Corazol is a large area for a Squad and a Half to clear this is why I gave the order to not clear any high rise blocks of flats and only clear if they take contact from them otherwise the clearance of Corazol could have been an entire OP all on it’s own. I think after the quiet route in the infantry were happy to get involved in some fighting but like I said they did a great job clearing it with our very low numbers for such an area.

I apologise to my fireteam for disconnecting but I was having some severe connection issues. The only thing I can say on the OP is that I agree with Flo, having an element of each fireteam in the vehicle made me, as FTL, feel mutilated and really not secure enough so we should definitely designate vehicles crew as separate roles. Also I would like to add a note on the first insertion which was… Well, ridicolous. The map was pretty clear about the forest and the slopes, I hope it won’t happen again because spending half an hour in the back of an IFV hearing people screaming all around “We’re stuck! OMG what the heck! There’s a tree!” Is clearly not the best for immersion, despite being quite fun as situation :LOL:

Well I would like to cover the points brought up by Flo and Henrik.

First the Squad and how it should deal with having an AFV in the mix.

First our current squads are 10 man strong so if you have an AFV with your squad I would do a few things first I would assign an A1 FTL to comd the vehicle and send with him an AAR from either team does not matter.
Myself as SL would take control of A1 and the medic would fill the AAR gap in whatever FT he come from now you have 2 full FT’s both with a leader and 4 men strong, you also have two men in the AFV.

This ensures you have an operational infanrty squad and at least a driver/gunner for your vehicle. Any other change up of squad structure when it comes to Mech infantry is debatable therefore I only covered what to do with our current structure just like you would if your squad had an armed Humvee etc.

Second the insertion route, well every convoy commander needs to realise that the lines drawn on the map are not exact routes one must take and I made this clear to all element leaders. It is up to the convoy lead to dictate that a route is not viable and then select the best detour available. I like everyone else was sat in the back of the vehicles so could not see anything so it really is on Convoy lead to make decisions as they see fit.

Saying that the route we wanted to take in our plan was the southern approach and so if you look at the map there is no real easy route to go, it was always going to be an uphill drive at some point no matter where you went, also the fact that we made it to our destination showed that we took a hard route yes but not an impossible one. There is a tactical reason for choosing the hard route as well, the enemy is less likely to patrol those areas or expect an approach from those directions.

All is all I think the distance of the base from the AO meant we were going to take a while anyway and yeah sure we could have gone faster and just increased distance but that is down to Convoy Lead. My only advice would be is to constantly be thinking as Convoy Lead is there a better route as your the person that can see the actual ground. This all comes with practice though so no reason to feel like bad whoever was Convoy lead on this one we got there in one piece that is all that matters.

[user avatar=“” name=“Dachi”]12591864[/user] that’s a valid point as far as infantry moves alongside with the vehicles otherwise the squad’s firepower is significantly reduced. From a gameplay perspective I’m not sure anyone would be willing to "sacrifice" themselves spending the whole night on a vehicle, personally if I pick any specific role is because I’d like to play as such element and finding out after role selection I’ll have to just drive around would be frustrating. That’s the reason why I argue we should have specific roles for vehicles crew, so that players can actually candidate and select their role in the mission.

As for the insertion, fair enough but it still was quite a mess on the communication side, nevertheless when it was my turn driving Alpha’s vehicle it was really tough to identify a viable path.

Loved the mission. The only negative feedback I have is not related to that, but to the ACE reload settings…we wound up taking the second tank instead of rearming because it would have taken us around 12+ mins minimum to rearm Dagger to full, and that’s if we were constantly moving the ammo over as fast as we could. Might be something to consider tweaking since I’m pretty sure you can set this to load by full type instead of single box/shell.

There has been multiple attempts to change that, but it was always veto’d by SSgts, so your only hope is to recruit players in the base to help you.

Oh yes that was also a problem when trying to resupply the main gun of the A-10, moving 1 bullet of 30mm at a time is not really realistic when a normal gun run of an A-10 is around 50 bullets at least.

There has been multiple attempts to change that, but it was always veto’d by SSgts, so your only hope is to recruit players in the base to help you.[/quote]
What was the reason for vetoing it? Resupply logistics seem like one of those really boring things you’d want the realism turned down on.

No idea. IIRC it was something about keeping a CAS plane on the ground for a longer time, so it has to conserve ammo or something like that.

No idea. IIRC it was something about keeping a CAS plane on the ground for a longer time, so it has to conserve ammo or something like that.[/quote]
That makes sense I suppose for CAS…but the long ass drive back for the tank, then the long ass time to reload, then drive back would have had us out for a solid chunk of the mission. I guess there really isn’t a ‘middle ground’ for the re-arm…maybe a rule about ensuring an extra "resupply" tank in the mission and then Zeus just refills it while the other is taken. IDK, just thinking out-loud.

I think that it might be possible to make a crate that would act as a resupply point, like a resupplycrate that is there for the infantry, but for vehicles that you can pick up and drop via slinging to a Heli.