Coop - Red Sun

Please leave feedback on the mission, what you liked you didn’t like and share your stories or videos.

Was testing a new setup so it recorded only about 3/4 of resolution.

Friendly fire was a big issue on this one see the OCAP for examples:


But other than those few incidents it was a great effort all round even with the Arce 343 issues

[youtube]Sometimes it's better to pull the trigger when you have 2nd thoughts - YouTube

[youtube]How medics should care about their patients - YouTube

There you go with some sort of teaser I guess and one of my best if not the best moment of Arma survival on the battlefield.

So to start of I loved the new grouping system. It makes us work closer to eachother as we should and it greatly increases mobility since you can leave someone behind to heal or of 2 guys get hit then you’re still combat effective.

Few mistakes(at least they are mistakes in my opinion) is that platoon lead wasn’t really needed for anything since it was technicly one team. It’s like we had alpha 1 and 2 with squad lead and platoon just for them waste of human resources IMO. Better put those in templar 2 or whatever that would be.

We have to get used to it so now we know that setting waypoints for healing and shit should have been set so we don’t end up all over the places(although we did kinda good didn’t we?)

I’m still not so sure if this is good for low numbers but I must say that I really enjoyed that grouping system.

Now I wanna know what is what. We had Team<Squad<Squad lead<Platoon lead before but I suppose this terminology is obsolete now isn’t it? How do you call that 1 big group? You just call it squad or…?

About the mission Itself, it was good fun. Good flanks, good amount of enemies, pretty nice area to fight in. Can’t say anything bad about the idea.

Problems were soldiers that refused to die after receiving overwhelming amount of lead into their bodies. Like on this bullshit 40s video. We fired 1.5 mags more into him. IDK what is it with russians but they are too stronk. I like fighting infidels on the deserts because they are 1-2 shot kill with 5.56 and I would like regular army to die after 1-3/4 hits just like we die. You can sometimes survive a lot of damage but usually it ends with 4 additional holes in your body and then you’re ded. Do something with russian factions I(we?) really hate to fight against them just because their armour is OP as fuck.

Radios are obvious problems but I hope we can solve it sooner than later. In this one(since we managed to get working ones later) it was sort of immersive I guess. It’s just like we are the worst army and we got toy radios :smiley:

Anyway, good mission and I wish we could’ve finished it today but… Parachuting and then dealing with bugs and making plans ate so much time today :confused: But splitting it in half would make very fun mission for next Tuesday.

Edit: Videos are here: How medics should care about their patients - YouTube

Good mission, for those in Templar 2 (yellow) that were wondering, it was an excellently placed enemy GP that wiped us out at the beginning of the town assault according to OCAP.

I already said I really liked the mission, but also the change in the shacktac UI grouping.
It felt like there was more cohesion in the squad and the FT’s were working together more.

So yeah, good change, good mission, good fun :slight_smile:

Wasin’t able to attend so no right to speak, but, I like the ui grouping, however I think it should be important for fireteams to retain some degree of invidiual mentality, find a balance between initiative and cohesion. They need to take strain off the squad leader, be on the same page, and not see it as an excuse to relax.

It worked like that, Price. Grouping did the job done in a way we predicted on monthly meeting. You can take a look on zcribe’s video(although I think he was platoon lead) or my.

Zcribe was the DMR. He did shoot the acting platoon lead at 1:29:30 of his video though. xD

That was a Rage quit moment for me XD…

Also mission was good only gripe I had was about having to ask the GM for reinsert and the reinsert basically being me running after you guys finally finding you guys(There was no accurate yellow( Templar 2) marker because of the new shacktac). and off course getting wiped out by that GP almost directly afterwards.

It’s interesting right now to be in a squad because there’s so much going on inside a single squad however I feel this might burden the SL overly so with planning out all elements(including his now own 4 man strong element) while taking away initiative that a FTL could show be simply directing troops to better location(over watch, supporting fire, destroying armor, etc) in accordance with the overall planning of the SL. That’s not all though read on if you want to know my current thoughts on the squad and fire team communication and implementation.

EDIT: adding more feedback on the above topic here as suggested by Dachi

I’m currently unsure as to what the responsibilities of the FTL are and the SL. So I’ll gloss over that and give my current view of the communication inside squads. Here’s how I view the structure of communication from my recruit POV please correct me where I am wrong.

All Fire team members/ FTL’s and SL’s of 1 particular squad are on the same ACRE net channel.

This means the following communication is happening on said Net:

  1. SL communication to and from FTL’s about objective’s
  2. Contact Reports from all squad members?
  3. ACE reports
  4. FTL’s internal communication between team leaders

Pretty short list right? However all communication that’s currently happening in direct voice is as follows:

  1. Reloading, Frag out Notifications
  2. Questions directed to FTL’s
  3. Contact Reports (still are very rough, ex: Left technical on the hill (It wasn’t a technical nor is it expounded very well which a lot of members seem to forget))
  4. FTL instructions, Formations, ROE, spacing, etc

My argument:
With everyone on the same Squad Net and ShackTac Hud, I feel we lose the tightness of the Fire teams and become just 1 big ass squad that has to wait for things because the SL has to sort it out (this is not new nor the problem). While waiting it’s not unusual to chat with your fire team members however direct comms means everyone can listen and well… you’re probably obnoxiously loud because of spacing meaning it’s better to not do it. Not only that but newer players might feel intimidated to even do a contact report on a Net with 12+ members.

With our current player turn out being avg 20 to 30 (I did not fact check this) I feel it would be more welcoming and bonding to new recruits, if we went back to a separate Net and HUD per Fire team(Meaning also Squad nets/Command Net). This means shorter feedback loops on incorrect or incomplete communication but also just friendly chatter on FireTeam Net ensuring everyone is comfortable with speaking up in that NET. Yes FTL responsibilities would increase to do more relaying of information and actual leading. However with the current turnout I feel were not allowing newer players to actively engage in the social bonding because the current communication methods are strictly direct comms when not relevant to entire squad which means unless were ignoring spacing it might be a little hard to just have a laugh with everyone without being obnoxiously loud . I feel as if these issue’s are resulting in a lower player communication and therefore newer players not integrating as well with our senior members.


Please revert Shacktac hud and have separate comms Net’s for fire teams again because I feel current configuration negatively impact player retention and fun.

Sorry for the long read

My suggestion is to use this new structure a bit longer, squad leaders will surely adapt better to the new situation.

Personally I think it matters if we’re split or not split in the sthud and I understand the decision to join. However I can subscribe to some issues related to radio communication.

  1. I think regular grunts shouldn’t be on radio channel, at all. As a grunt, the constant noise coming over the radio is distracting and it keeps you away from doing your job - scan for threats, check corners etc. If now the squad net has increase to 10 members, the noise will just be 2 and 1/2 fold. Contact report from rifleman in other fireteam means very little if they are 100m away, which usually they need to be to prevent decisive engagement. Enemy at bearing 250 is irrelevant if coming from someone who is further away. Grunts having the radio also results in funny thing where FTL basically just says "guys, you heard the man (SL)".

Fireteam members can communicate via direct voice and there is really no need for radio. A single fireteam shouldn’t be spread apart beyond voice distance. FTL can relay contact reports to SL if squad is in bounding/travelling overwatch.

  1. SL to TL communication for me belongs to the squad net. SLs job is way easier if he doesn’t micromanage 10 people but just communicates to FTL 1 and 2 and treats them as atomic elements.

  2. If TL dies, AAR takes his radio and the process continues.

Radio communication issue, for me, exists for some time and wasn’t influenced by restructure. The way we’re using the radio sounds like we’re division commanders, not squad or fireteam.

So where to start, let’s start here :slight_smile:

It is strange to me that for some reason now you are in the same Shack Tac group that so much is going on now as the radio structure has not changed nor has any of the ways in which we should be using squads and fire teams. The SL should not be busy with planning lots of elements because the Squad is the element, fire teams are part of that element not separate elements that take on objectives themselves the Squad takes on the objective working together with the fire teams only providing Fire support element and Manoeuvre Element/Assaulting Element. The SL only has him and the Medic not a four man element to control and the medic just follow’s him and provides him protection no thinking needed in regards to this.

[quote user_id=“1123048” avatar=“” name=“Zero”]My argument:
With everyone on the same Squad Net and ShackTac Hud, I feel we lose the tightness of the Fire teams and become just 1 big ass squad that has to wait for things because the SL has to sort it out (this is not new nor the problem). While waiting it’s not unusual to chat with your fire team members however direct comms means everyone can listen and well… you’re probably obnoxiously loud because of spacing meaning it’s better to not do it. Not only that but newer players might feel intimidated to even do a contact report on a Net with 12+ members. [/quote]

The problem sounds like people do not like changing their direct voice volume to the appropriate level, if players are having a conversation about non game related stuff they should be on low and not disturbing others and spacing is a tactical problem that if correct for the situation also should not cause any communications problems. The waiting for the SL I do not understand as the SL is the element leader and therefore your fire team should not be moving unless he tells you to, obviously by moving I mean just moving to a WP or OBJ or even 100m away off your own back, if your need to reposition your fire team, get to better cover or just put out some flank protection then do so this is the FTL using his initiative but in all other circumstances you would wait for orders from your SL anyway wouldn’t you?

The problem I see from that one sentence about being “just 1 big ass squad that has to wait for things” is it comes across as though we should be using fire teams independently from the squad, so just under his command but moving as and when like its own separate element which is exactly the reason why this new structure was brought in to stop this because fire teams like this may be easier to control but they are ineffective one fire team 400m away from the other cannot support it effectively.

Please see this as it has all the details why the new structure was put in place Restructure Proposal.

We have been using the same nets within Squads for a long time now I think last time we had separate was when we had TFAR. The problem with having separate nets is that like you have said you then have to relay messages from one FT to the SL and other FT and it slows things down and causes mistakes as it ends up like a game of Chinese whispers and it is just more efficient for the SL to give the plan over the radio and all the fire team members also know the plan or what is happening instead of FTL receiving orders and then repeating them to his FT or forgetting this and having his FT ask him questions about what are we doing. But I also used to really like the TFAR radio structure when I first joined so I am open minded about it.

Interesting point but I think this can be easily solved if it is distracting by turning it down slightly so you can still hear but think also. The contact reports from separate fire teams also yes if they are separated by big distance then yes they don’t mean much but what they do is inform the whole squad that your other fire team is in contact and where they are from them. The last point I don’t think is a bad one you get it straight from the SL and it is the FTL who has to make it happen it is just nice that all have heard the order so the FTL does not need to pass on information he can instead use it get the guys moving faster and confirm it if members do not understand it personally I would never just say you heard him lets go or words to that effect.

Totally agree.

This sounds dangerously like treating fire teams as separate elements.

Totally agree if people also feel the same way please discuss this if you want them changed in the Brainstorming Forum and get the whole communities input to formulate a plan. My opinions are not the LAW if you do not like it let us know but the Communications issues and New Shack Tac structure are separate issues.

All the Best,

I’ve only played once with the new system, but I feel like it does encourage cooperation between FTs, since you can often see/be reminded of where they are and what they are doing on the SThud, my only two gripes are:

  1. The removal of color teams that make coordinating bounding/covering within the team easier
  2. Losing FT map markers - This makes PID a bit harder since the map marker for the squad could be a hundred odd metres away from the guy you’re trying to check is friendly. It also means that when things go to shit it’s harder for teams to regroup effectively - as soon as a FT is out of the shactac hud there’s no way to know where they have gone. I guess splitting up to the point that you don’t know where the other team is should be avoided anyway though.

Regarding radios; I strongly recommend to turn the volume down to 40-60% and put in into one ear. I have to do this on every (re)spawn, otherwise I get completely distracted when somebody speaks on the radio - it destroys any sense of non-radio sound direction when it’s at 100% volume in both ears.

One question regarding sthud now. How do you tell who is in your fireteam? Color or something else?

Colour which is why I chose giving fire teams the same colour.