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Hello all,
My feedback on the mission is as follows:
- First one would be for Seb to make anyone inside the helicopters invincible but leave the helicopters as able to take damage. This will give the effect of HOT LZ’s but without wiping everyone.
- The 2nd point ties in with the first and that would be that in situations with hot LZ’s etc then proper intel should be supplied like pictures of the objectives so the planning can select LZ’s with a good chance of not being taken out etc otherwise we go in blind.
I guess the outcome of the mission and how hard it was in general ties in with the lack of intel for the planning phase this then had a knock-on effect for the rest of the mission.
P.S. thanks for the mission I would like to do it again with the changes I suggested.
I’d also be keen on running it again but on a Friday
I wouldn’t run the same mission again but I am fond of the concept - Having learned a bit here about difficulty tuning that’ll be better.
I also didn’t provide enough intel, [user avatar=“https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.enjin.com/821401/site_logo/small.png” name=“LagGrenade”]20364388[/user] put some good effort into planning but schematics of the objectives could have been made available, I was trying to not tell him how to plan the mission but I went too far into the opposite direction.
Quick note before I start, always check for heart rate first, before even bandaging. Give CPR if accordingly.
On to the actual feedback. If this comes over as a personal attack on anyone, I am sorry. I had a really bad time tonight and my judgement may be a bit clouded. Do not take offense.
I feel like I was not listened to when I gave feedback a few weeks ago that this mission should be a Friday mission due to the number of objectives. It could have avoided a bunch of issues, time constraints and other small annoyances. For one the 40 minute briefing would not feel as bad as it was a longer mission, and the first whipe would also not feel as bad as we would have more play time afterwards. Instead even having not died this mission, I was awake and fighting for a full 2 magazines during the entire OP and spend over 1,5 hours in the base waiting today. None of which was necessary in my mind. Platoon called in RTB’s to make new plans after every objective which took way to long, he called in RTB’s to resupply even though it was never called on long range what the ACE report was and just assumed things. Lesson for everyone who wants a leading position, never assume anything, always ask your leaders. They know what they are doing and can give you information which will avoid these things. Just ask. Communication is a leads job.
We had a bad plan. I think literally any other platoon leader would have taken LZ’s further away. According to the CNTR it would have been safer as well even though we did not know this before. Some of us may know which area’s were hotter though due to playing Homecoming last Friday which plays a few hours before this mission. Unfortunately the homecoming information was not taken into consideration when making the plan, a missed opportunity.
The fast in fast out strategy was never going to work without scouting on the ground, which brings me to the point, we had the choice of a scouting element. But due to recommendations we moved away from it.
I feel like that role would have been the most important role in the mission. It would have been able to scout out safe LZ’s and static emplacements/big concentrations of enemies. Something that could have avoided the fiasco that was the first objective. It would also have helped in the approach and speed of the mission because we would have had a better view on things.
MAT was a bad choice overall since MAT literally saw no vehicles. I think the slots could have even been removed from the mission as they had no use and it would always be a filler class.
I would have felt better with 2 less choppers and instead have a black hawk to transport troops.
From the short period that I had a long range I noticed it was very cluttered and confusing due to the many elements. Call outs were missed, elements were not responding and there was a bit of unnecessary information shared on it.
I think a rule can even be made that if you have more then 2 specialized elements on long range, you always need a platoon sergeant with a dedicated task to guide them and relay information.
Another thing I really missed was the distance fighting from Carpe Diem, even just adding a few ambiance fighting sounds in the back ground would have made it feel like a more complete story.
I don’t think the mission was bad. It was interesting. I just wish we would have had it as a Friday opp and had more people involved on the forum in the planning to point out the flaws of the plan.
However, that didn’t happen and it brought us to this.
If anyone takes offense or wants to talk about any of these points, let me know.
I agree with everything above as that’s how I saw it play out from my perspective as well.
I don’t agree with the "we need a ‘rule’ for a PLT sergeant", a PLT lead should be able to handle 3 elements especially if one element was folded into the other as was the case for MAT and MMG.
Night bird was under the control of Churizo so I don’t think lag grenade had all that much on his plate as it was with two elements. A PLT sergeant would’ve been nice to talk to the air elements but a PLT lead should realistically be able to handle 3 infantry squads and MMT/MAT. For other elements and everything else a PLT sergeant would help though.
This is a post I will edit later, since I don’t have time to type it now but I want to remember the things.
-why pilot passenger immortality for Chopper’s is a bad idea
-why mat was NOT a bad pick, despite not seeing action
- plan was available on the forum, so if people disliked the plan they could’ve weighted in there.
[quote user_id=“3602631” avatar=“https://assets-cloud.enjin.com/users/3602631/avatar/medium.1411590107.jpeg” name=“Shiny”]Quick note before I start, always check for heart rate first, before even bandaging. Give CPR if accordingly.
On to the actual feedback. If this comes over as a personal attack on anyone, I am sorry. I had a really bad time tonight and my judgement may be a bit clouded. Do not take offense.
I feel like I was not listened to when I gave feedback a few weeks ago that this mission should be a Friday mission due to the number of objectives. [/quote]
The final objective took ~20 minutes for the guys on the ground to complete, which is more or less what I planned for. If that pace was kept for other objectives then that would’ve been about 5 objectives that could have been completed. In the OPORD it says you don’t have to complete them all, it was mainly insurance against objectives being done too quick.
[quote user_id=“3602631” avatar=“https://assets-cloud.enjin.com/users/3602631/avatar/medium.1411590107.jpeg” name=“Shiny”]
We had a bad plan. I think literally any other platoon leader would have taken LZ’s further away. According to the CNTR it would have been safer as well even though we did not know this before. Some of us may know which area’s were hotter though due to playing Homecoming last Friday which plays a few hours before this mission. Unfortunately the homecoming information was not taken into consideration when making the plan, a missed opportunity.
The fast in fast out strategy was never going to work without scouting on the ground, which brings me to the point, we had the choice of a scouting element. But due to recommendations we moved away from it. [/quote]
True for the first point, I recommended 1-200m from the site as an LZ and the planned LZ was 50m from site, which bears a large blame in the inesertion going awry.
I half agree with the second point here, the reason I recommended against the scouting element is that we had ~18 people in ground roles, taking away 2 people is more than 10% of the platoon’s firepower gone, in retrospect I should’ve provided more information to plan with or recommended this role be filled as info>guns
Seletion bias lol, MAT was not a terrible choice, it could have been useful if attacking other objectives that had armored targets such as the tank depo. As you didn’t get to that, sure it wasn’t too useful but planning to take it made perfect sense.
Being ferried about via littlebird was a key point of the mission, as the littlebird is one of the only helicopters that can reliably and quickly drop troops anywhere in urban environments. I could’ve given you a Blackhawk, which would have actually been more vulnerable to RPG or gunfire as it must land slower by necessity but didn’t as that’s what we do all the time and I wanted something different.
Why don’t I give you a CH-53 which can comfortably fit an entire platoon so you don’t have to think? Or in fact sod the whole point of the mission and have you drive in out in a convoy like we do every other mission.
Complaints like this make me want to give up on trying to insert variety into missions because nobody wants to figure out how to do anything, they want to play the same old way and win the same old way every time.
Completely unnecessary, it can be very useful and could have been this mission but some people just don’t need it.
I think this was a perfect storm for things to go wrong. An inexperienced Platoon lead who is still getting his feet, an ambitious mission that is probably going to take an iteration or 2 (assuming we replay it) to get right, and troops who needed to move hard and fast but are much more used to a slow and methodical movement. Not to toot our own horn but Nightbirds did ok under the circumstances. [user avatar=“https://assets-cloud.enjin.com/users/7849506/avatar/small.1590497467.png” name=“Seb”]7849506[/user] Don’t want you to feel disheartened, this is a good mission idea and I think with a few tweaks we could get this to be really fun.
I agree with Shiny on most his points, MAT may have been useful but I think ground recon would have been much more helpful is scouting LZ’s and enemy positions before any chopper even takes off. Also agree that a Blackhawk or 3 would be helpful, not to remove the uniqueness of inserting by Littlebird but to give us more options (and more seats) for insertions, what I can see in my head is 1 or 2 Littlebirds inserting Alpha as close to the objective as possible while a Blackhawk inserts supporting elements further away. Plt Sergeant would have been useful too, just to keep everything moving.
Also I think it may be worth giving Plt access to Artillery, if theres tanks rolling into the city its definitely something that could be available, even if its something quick and dirty through the vanilla support system cutting out the need for relaying through a Zeus. I think it would speed things up since in this sort of mission you’re not supposed to fight everything (which I believe was what people on ground ended up having to do) but keep moving and if anything is a big enough threat to stop you moving you bring down holy fire on it, as it was the only support we had was an AH-6 which did well but I think more support options would help
On some level I do bear responsibility for not keeping the brief short, but in my defense I was trying to drive quick, decisive action. This was because I believed the main threat to be a QRF, that the objectives would be lightly garrisoned with patrols and QRF in the area. This necessitated aggressive landing zones, and well coordinated action. The scenario on Mortar Pit East (2nd obj) was the exact situation I wanted to avoid. I also repeatedly emphasized in the brief that pilots had final say on LZ, and consulted with pilots during the tactical planning thread, which was also put up to minimize briefing times, to no or limited success.
I actually didn’t know homecoming and this op took place in the same scenario. To be clear: I knew it was the same map, but I didn’t know that mortar pit/enemy positions/etc would be repeated, not when I was playing homecoming or when I was planning this op.
I disagree, that was clearly supposed to be my job and I simply was too hands off and too out of the way about it. I do think a Sgt was warranted to manage ground forces here, but I don’t like hard and fast rules like that. I will certainly be more willing to take deputies in future.
YES PLEASE. If I go to the work of making a tactical planning thread, ideally I don’t want any questions after the briefing. I want the brief to be a quick reminder of what the plan is, but everyone who’s leading already knows what the deal is. Not everyone has the time to read and criticize tactical planning, but I’d ask that element leaders at least know the rough plan and message me or reply with questions before the op, not during. I hate keeping the Op waiting, I actually wanted to get in early to mark the map in advance, so we could literally just take off and go straight in.
It is (imo) currently impossible to execute fast in fast out on the size of objectives we encountered in this op. Especially the first objective there were so many enemies that taking wounds is inevitable. At the point we start taking wounds we very quickly go unconscious, often combined with cardiac arrest. Due to the 120 seconds timer we have on it, this now always requires instant treatment or they will die, halting the momentum of elements.
While I am now confident as a medic I could get anyone from any state up within a couple of minutes, with the speed people were going down on the first objective (and also on the approach of the second one) it led to everything grinding to a halt.
I highly recommend we start testing a higher player damage threshold to prevent people going unconscious and into cardiac arrest so quickly at the start of ops. A higher damage threshold does not make us stronger for the entire op, because as wounds accumulate you will enter unconsciousness and cardiac arrest faster (if a player goes into cardiac arrest once from a head/torso wound, then any other damage to that body part will put them back into it even if the wound is stitched, including a 9mm round into armour from 20 meters). Upping this setting would therefore make us stronger at the start of ops (possibly allowing us to pull of a quick assault as was intended here) and we would gradually get weaker to where we are now.
This setting would also mean reinserts are slightly stronger and less-likely to get screwed over repeatedly as they could take a bit more of a punch.
It would also synergise will with this op in specific and the respawn medical rules