ACE3 Medical system rewrite


Good to know that the people who make Arma more realistic seem to think that rifles fire empty cartridges.

Yeah it seems they are going for less realistic and more arcade style and yeah the fact they showed the empty cartridge does not bode well considering these are the people simulating wounds in arma but don’t know how rifles work :cry:

Also the guy getting hit in the plate and just turning his like was that a fly lol crazy.

Empty catridge flying thing is just weird. Alot of people make the mistake of round flying while doing "follow the bullet" thing. This is a whole another level of being uninformed. Maybe we can find one where the gun itself flies and stabs the target?

I don’t really understand what the change about having plate is. Plate carrier negates all damage from a rifle somehow? I bet real militaries would love to get their hands on those. I wish they would implement some sort of reaction for the AI. Force prone and disable movement for 2 secs, animate some half-assed animation and run it or something. How is what they show in any way acceptable. Guy gets hit doesn’t care and all his buddies do a firing line.

Cardiac arrest example is funny. Yes drop some 30mm Vulcan ammo into the guy and somehow he is still healable. Direct hit from a tank cannon ahh cardiac arrest. The way AI goes unconcious, bleeds for 10 mins and then wakes up is stupid enough already.

Could be they were just having fun with models…

I think the whole empty cartridge is ironic/satirical. A popular sniper video game trailer was recently released with the whole element being fired, and it made a lot of noise in the gaming community.

Unless you consider A-10 ground deployment over two sandbags point blank into the target to be regular procedure…?

I’m somewhat surprised the yanks haven’t replaced the electric chair/death by injection for death by BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT

The casing thing is definitely a joke in the context of the rest of the video.

You’re missing something. The keyword in this cardiac arrest thing is player which he mentions several times in this video. Revive in the old ACE was implemented for players, not AI. That’s how revive for players was working before and take not, our revive option is disabled in both PvP and COOP. It will not work for AI.

Just to ease your worries, I’ll contact ACE team about this.

tomhighway [12:03 PM]
@baermitumlaut I think my friends mean that revive is going to be mandatory for both players and AI.

mean -> think*

for example, if player revive setting is going to be X, that will not apply to enemy AI, right?

new messages
baermitumlaut [12:26 PM]
Not necessarily, no

cyruz [12:43 PM]
I think it’s fair to say it’ll be as optional as possible, where it can be, right @baermitumlaut

That’s very reasonable of them, color me not worried at all.

From the looks of it, the plate-carrier thing will only really affect pistol calibers. Now, instead of creating a penetration wound, they’ll produce contusions or something, if they hit armour. From the wording in the video, it seems like rifle sized bullets won’t be changed much, if at all.

TBH i like this… It doesn’t seem like this will make medical system more acrady at all… The way I understood it the system will stay pretty much the same as it is now, BUT it will be a lot less janky, the VESTS will finally do something, and instead of making you bleed a little, will stop the bullet and give you a bruise.

And that is not mentioning their statement that they will make it easier to customize and add new features. So if the level of realism desired by us is not there at release, it will either get added later based on feedback, or our awesome tech team will surely be able to make the necessary adjustments.

P.S.: The cartridge thing was obviously a joke. These are the guys, who MADE ACE and by extension Advanced Ballistics… You guys really think that was serious?

I think even 5.56x45 falls under the definition of "small callibers". Also diameter of the bullet is not all that is considered when determining whether the caliber is "small", but also the weight of the projectile and amount of propellant (also muzzle velocity in some cases). For example 7.62 is considered medium-calibre, while 9mm or .45ACP is still small calibre.

For Arma3’s vanilla ballistics (most of which are still in use, ACE3 advanced ballistics just simulates bullet trajectory), there are several components to bullets; caliber, a "hit" value and speed, which is modified by an air resistance value. With a caliber large enough and speed high enough, penetration occurs. The catch is that Arma3 simulates it so incredibly badly - the damage dealt is the "hit" value over some simulation timeframe (how long the bullet was inside the soldier), so with very penetrative bullets, you actually do less damage than with less penetrating ones.
I tried just this today - upped the bullet speed from 320m/s to 32000m/s on an SMG and fired an entire magazine from point blank into a soldier - he did seem flinch every time, but very little damage was dealt despite the bullets going through him every time.

Pictures - Arma 3: Damage Description - Bohemia Interactive Community .

What ACE3 does is that it explicitly tells the game to not do any damage to the soldier - they hook a "hit" EventHandler to nullify any damage dealt, so they could handle it themselves. This is btw also the source of one ACE3 bug that /sometimes/ makes a bullet hit not count, even if it was a sniper shot (~5% of all cases) - - YouTube . I’m interested to see how they want to handle the special case of plate carriers. :slight_smile:

[quote user_id=“13633351” avatar=“” name=“Freghar”] the damage dealt is the "hit" value over some simulation timeframe (how long the bullet was inside the soldier), so with very penetrative bullets, you actually do less damage than with less penetrating ones.

That is actually closer to real than you would think.

Stopping power is one of the factors when considering caliber and ammo type.

Overpenetration is not as effective at dealing internal damage. Thats why you have hollow points - they create more damage in flesh because the energy gets quickly dissipated on contact versus that energy getting out of the body by penetrating further.

That is exactly why Colt M1911 is still used to this day - its stopping power (with .45 ACP) is much greater than 9mm, although its accuracy, penetration and capacity are worse.

Colt M1911 - 7 bullets, 251 m/s muzzle velocity (.45 ACP)
Beretta M9 - 15 bullets, 381 m/s muzzle velocity (9 mm)

Do you guys think it would be possible to change/remove the uncounscious position ? I mean when someone goes down next to you you can instantly say if he’s dead or not (laying on his stomach with weapon in hand vs random position with dropped weapon, not mentioning things like track ir still working). I think it would be nice to actually have to check pulse etc. to know if someone’s dead …

I’m guessing it’s not an easy thing to do but I was just asking myself this question

I believe that’s on the to-do list of ACE. Dead player is just a ragdoll that’s local to every player if I’m correct. If player is alive he can only be set in certain states/animations.

As much as it sucks cause it’s easy to say who is dead and who unconscious, it’s the best option out there so far.

IIRC there’s no way to ragdoll anything except a corpse and once you’re a corpse, there’s no reviving. Even the vanilla revive system silently spawns a new unit and deletes the old corpse. Same for the permadeath-disabled ACE3 setting you can see on various youtube channels; if you look closely, the player ragdolls and then ACE3 spawns a new (standing) soldier and makes him go prone to a specific animation.

Yes, there’s some truth to that, but a 12.7mm bullet going at 50km/s is still going to make a big hole in your chest, which is just not the case in Arma.

[quote user_id=“13633351” avatar=“” name=“Freghar”][quote user_id=“1171274” avatar=“” name=“Abuk”]
That is actually closer to real than you would think.
Yes, there’s some truth to that, but a 12.7mm bullet going at 50km/s is still going to make a big hole in your chest, which is just not the case in Arma.[/quote]

First of all, tests done on unrealistic projectiles, should produce unrealistic results… At 50 km/s the bullet would disintegrate immediately after firing. (fastest recorded meteor to ever enter our atmosphere was travelling at 28km/s and that one disintegrated in the thin part of the atmosphere).

Secondly "reductio ad absurdum" method might not be ideal to point out that the mechanic isnt perfect, because there is one very important aspect that isn’t modeled in arma 3 or any mod, that bloody well should be. The sonic boom.

A 12.7 mm shell travelling at 10 km/s should knock you out even when it flies within one meter around you. The shockwave would simply do the job. Now a 7.62mm bullet that would enter and exit the body at 700 m/s (clean overpenetration, MACH 2 speed) should by itself do relatively minor damage. The shockwave following it however, should completely wreck the body (that bullet whip noise you hear when something is shooting past you). That is for example the reason of the famous exploding heads after a sniper hits them, etc…

If i was to compare this effect to something, imagine somebody swing an exceedingly sharp katana at a bunch of bamboo sticks. At first nothing happens, but then one by one they start falling down, with perfect clean cuts.

That is one of my major disappointments with arma, that the sonic boom is not modelled correctly. A plane passing overhead at mach 2 should have a concussive effect on anything below it.

For the sake of the argument, I was ignoring the shockwave (as it’s not being simulated) - my point was that even without the shockwave (let’s assume vacuum), the hole would be fatal or severely injuring on most parts of one’s chest cavity, but Arma doesn’t even model that correctly because with increasing speed, it ignores more and more of the damage, so at 50km/s, it’s equivalent to a mosquito bite.
(Yes, I’m ignoring other factors like compression of the bullet, heating, etc., but you get the point.)

Also, it wouldn’t be the only thing missing simulation. :slight_smile: